The Environment

[ZRod]

Yeah... I suppose if you subscribe to climate doomsday dogma then that's true... 

You also have to consider that as the technology currently stands in regards to wind and solar, they require backup power sources for when there's no wind or sun, respectively. We currently do not have the technology to store excess power generated by these systems.

Uh... There are technologies available to store it with and people are coming up with new and more innovative ways every day. It may not be entirely economical right now, but just like electric car battery packs the prices will come down as the parent technology becomes more prevalent and people see the market growing.

 

[ActualCornHusker]

Yep, 97% consensus of scientists using scientific data is definitely 'climate doomsday dogma'.



Boy do those guys have an agenda...especially in American politics right?  Well then, what about the rest of the world?

http://www.opr.ca.gov/facts/list-of-scientific-organizations.h

Tanzania and Zimbabwe surely have a horse in the race with Republicans and Democrats right?

Contrary to leftist belief, it's possible to acknowledge that the climate is changing and that humans are having an effect on it but not buy the idea that it's going to kill everyone

 

[knapplc]

We currently do not have the technology to store excess power generated by these systems.

 

[ActualCornHusker]

Link 

"While wind farms and solar arrays are scaling up worldwide, we also need to become better at storing energy so that it’s available on-demand. Turning the intermittency of wind and solar into the ‘baseload’ energy required by the grid is an engineering challenge that offers enormous reward to those that solve it. So there is vigorous competition to optimize energy storage."

In layman's terms, there are ideas in progress, but the technology to store and make the energy immediately available from wind and solar has a long way to go. If there's fully ready technology out there, please provide a link. I'd love to become aware of it. 

 

[knapplc]

Link 

"While wind farms and solar arrays are scaling up worldwide, we also need to become better at storing energy so that it’s available on-demand. Turning the intermittency of wind and solar into the ‘baseload’ energy required by the grid is an engineering challenge that offers enormous reward to those that solve it. So there is vigorous competition to optimize energy storage."

In layman's terms, there are ideas in progress, but the technology to store and make the energy immediately available from wind and solar has a long way to go. If there's fully ready technology out there, please provide a link. I'd love to become aware of it. 

We didn't have the technology to go to the moon in 1962, either.

We dedicated resources, we did it purposefully, and we overcame a mountain of technological problems.

By comparison, learning how to scale up energy storage is child's play.

The problem we have is fossil fuel industries lobby congress so the national resources are dedicated to making this viable aren't being dedicated.

Maybe if we stopped listening to special interests and providing corporate welfare we'd have this perfected by now. As it is, the Dutch, the Scottish and the Canadians are ahead of us on this.

 

[ActualCornHusker]

We didn't have the technology to go to the moon in 1962, either.

We dedicated resources, we did it purposefully, and we overcame a mountain of technological problems.

By comparison, learning how to scale up energy storage is child's play.

The problem we have is fossil fuel industries lobby congress so the national resources are dedicated to making this viable aren't being dedicated.

Maybe if we stopped listening to special interests and providing corporate welfare we'd have this perfected by now. As it is, the Dutch, the Scottish and the Canadians are ahead of us on this.

I don't disagree with you for the most part tbh

 

[teachercd]

We all agree that the climate had 3 ways to go...up, down, stay the same.

We also all agree that it is not going to stay the same, right?

Sooooooo...

 

[commando]

Link 

"While wind farms and solar arrays are scaling up worldwide, we also need to become better at storing energy so that it’s available on-demand. Turning the intermittency of wind and solar into the ‘baseload’ energy required by the grid is an engineering challenge that offers enormous reward to those that solve it. So there is vigorous competition to optimize energy storage."

In layman's terms, there are ideas in progress, but the technology to store and make the energy immediately available from wind and solar has a long way to go. If there's fully ready technology out there, please provide a link. I'd love to become aware of it. 

your link lists some ways that the power is being stored and ready for demand....such as this part of your link.    it seems that chile, dubai, and australia are not saying it can't be done.  they are ahead of the U.S. and getting it done now.

Until recently, concentrating solar power was expensive, but in 2017, the price dropped precipitously, as new plants under construction in Dubai, Australia, and Chile each set new records for the cheapest electricity price in the world. The Chilean plant is being constructed in the relentlessly sunny Atacama Desert, where it will soon bring 24/7 solar energy to Chile’s mining industry.

 

[ActualCornHusker]

your link lists some ways that the power is being stored and ready for demand....such as this part of your link.    it seems that chile, dubai, and australia are not saying it can't be done.  they are ahead of the U.S. and getting it done now.

Until recently, concentrating solar power was expensive, but in 2017, the price dropped precipitously, as new plants under construction in Dubai, Australia, and Chile each set new records for the cheapest electricity price in the world. The Chilean plant is being constructed in the relentlessly sunny Atacama Desert, where it will soon bring 24/7 solar energy to Chile’s mining industry.

Nobody said it can't be done... but the entire point of the article (and reality) is that storage of energy - and the ability to make it available where and when it's needed - is not currently advanced enough to depend on. 

 

[commando]

Nobody said it can't be done... but the entire point of the article (and reality) is that storage of energy - and the ability to make it available where and when it's needed - is not currently advanced enough to depend on. 

at least for solar energy.....it seems to be working already in those 3 plants.   

 

[BigRedBuster]

Link 

"While wind farms and solar arrays are scaling up worldwide, we also need to become better at storing energy so that it’s available on-demand. Turning the intermittency of wind and solar into the ‘baseload’ energy required by the grid is an engineering challenge that offers enormous reward to those that solve it. So there is vigorous competition to optimize energy storage."

In layman's terms, there are ideas in progress, but the technology to store and make the energy immediately available from wind and solar has a long way to go. If there's fully ready technology out there, please provide a link. I'd love to become aware of it. 

The point you're making is right out of the fossil fuel's play book.

What they fail to recognize is that the ultimate solution isn't to totally switch everything over to wind farms or solar fields.  But, it's a part of the equation that needs to be developed and expanded greatly.  We have a lot of options to us from wind, solar, nuclear, hydro, tidal...etc. Some have been developed a lot and some need more development.  More are being researched all the time.

The problem is, the fossil fuel industry's billions of dollars in propaganda and lobbying hinder that development.

Let me ask this.  Let's say we develop all of these energy sources and 100 years from now, our great grand kids realize that we were all wrong about climate change, what's the harm that's done?  The oil, coal and natural gas will still be in the ground.  If they want to use it then....so be it.  But.....if we are RIGHT about climate change and we do nothing, is that a better alternative?

 

[Mierin]

The point you're making is right out of the fossil fuel's play book.

What they fail to recognize is that the ultimate solution isn't to totally switch everything over to wind farms or solar fields.  But, it's a part of the equation that needs to be developed and expanded greatly.  We have a lot of options to us from wind, solar, nuclear, hydro, tidal...etc. Some have been developed a lot and some need more development.  More are being researched all the time.

The problem is, the fossil fuel industry's billions of dollars in propaganda and lobbying hinder that development.

Let me ask this.  Let's say we develop all of these energy sources and 100 years from now, our great grand kids realize that we were all wrong about climate change, what's the harm that's done?  The oil, coal and natural gas will still be in the ground.  If they want to use it then....so be it.  But.....if we are RIGHT about climate change and we do nothing, is that a better alternative?

Even if we’re wrong about climate change, the new sources of power are better for the environment, e.g. the air we breathe. 

 

[RedDenver]

Yeah... I suppose if you subscribe to climate doomsday dogma then that's true... 

I am capable of doing the math. You can too. That's the great thing about science.

You also have to consider that as the technology currently stands in regards to wind and solar, they require backup power sources for when there's no wind or sun, respectively. We currently do not have the technology to store excess power generated by these systems.

We absolutely do have the technology to store the excess power. The only question is the price. And both photovoltaics and battery storage have been exponentially declining in price:

Battery prices fall nearly 50% in 3 years, spurring more electrification

Dive Brief:

• Average market prices for battery packs have plunged from $1,100/kWh in 2010 to $156/kWh in 2019, an 87% fall in real terms, according to a report released Tuesday by Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF).
  
• Prices are projected to fall to around $100/kWh by 2023, driving electrification across the global economy, according to BNEF's forecast.
  
• Customers purchasing batteries at a commercial scale for electric vehicles and energy storage, as well as using high energy density cathodes to store energy more efficiently in battery packs, are all spurring the price decline.
  

Lazard tracks the costs of renewables and energy storage:

 

[Ratt Mhule]

Im sure some republicans will need this after she was named TIME person of the year today. 

 

[teachercd]

Is TIME magazine still in print or just online?