The Environment

RedDenver said:
There's no solid evidence for your claim either - it's just our opinions.

Everyone keeps talking about the center but that assumes several things: 1) the "center" is an actual position people hold 2) people in the center are a significant population of the voters compared to the non-center 3) the center people wouldn't have voted Bernie even though the alternative was Trump 4) Bernie wouldn't have made in-roads with the center during his general election campaign.

Bernie tends to do well with voters when he talks about his policies. I think it's more likely Bernie would have moved more people to voting for him than Biden did. Bernie would still have the anti-Trump vote plus he'd have a plan and policies to talk about in the campaign. Plus while he caucuses with the Dems, he's still an independent, which gives him an appeal as non-partisan and as an outsider that I think is underappreciated.
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I have no idea what the voter turnout was like for the 18-30 year old range this year but I think Bernie would have grabbed a lot of them (I would guess Trump did as well).

 
knapplc said:
Other than polls which showed Biden leading Bernie pretty much the entire time, and the fact that Bernie has run multiple times without ever getting out of the primaries.
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Bernie also lead in polls and Biden had run more more times with ever getting out of the primaries.

 
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DevoHusker said:
Me too. I think that literally anyone other than Hillary would have seen close to the same results as what we got with Biden. 
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I seriously doubt anybody other than Joe Biden could've won.

In the tipping point states, Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin, Biden won by a combined 45k votes. This was when he outperformed nearly every downballot Democrat in any competitive race.

I'm glad Democrats got a trifecta. Their only hope at this point is that Trump creates a 'Patriot Party', otherwise it could be decades before they get a trifecta again.

 
Also, I think more people were willing do vote for other Dems for the house and senate because they knew a moderate was going to be in power if Biden won. 

 
BigRedBuster said:
I don't agree with that.

The reason Biden received 80+ million votes is because of two reasons:

a)  A huge number of people realized Trump needed to be defeated.

and

b). A relatively moderate candidate appeared on the ballot for the Ds.  

There were a lot of people who typically would not have voted for a Democrat, felt comfortable voting for Biden to defeat Trump.  I don't think that would have been the case if someone like Bernie, Warren or AOC were the candidate.
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So you dont think democrats can turn non-political people that normally dont vote because they think its pointless Into voters if they did things to actually help people and not corporations?

 
knapplc said:
Extreme candidates don't drive the center. Bernie is pretty far left, we can all agree.

He never polled remotely as high as Biden. There's no solid evidence to support that he would have won by a larger margin than the guy we have now.
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Did they do polls with Bernie and Trump head to head? Were in the middle of a pandemic and you think the guy that wanted to give everyone healthcare would have lost? Trump got more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016, so this BS about how Biden turned GOP to him is nonsense. Biden won because Bernie people sucked up their pride and voted for him. He won because of the youth plain and simple. Look at the data. 

 
BigRedBuster said:
This is easy to believe if you're someone who wants an extreme candidate.  But....that doesn't play well with the middle and a lot of those people would have sat out.
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No, the middle voted for Trump. How else do you explain 10 million more votes than 2016. The youth won this for Biden. Every piece of empirical data shows that. They showed up and voted for Biden instead of third party like 2016. Guess who the youth voted for in the primaries. 

 
Frott Scost said:
No, the middle voted for Trump. How else do you explain 10 million more votes than 2016. The youth won this for Biden. Every piece of empirical data shows that. They showed up and voted for Biden instead of third party like 2016. Guess who the youth voted for in the primaries. 
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It was both. If you lose just one of those, Trump wins.

Show me the data on how moderates/independents voted the majority for Trump.

 
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