The First Trump Impeachment Thread

No articles of impeachment were ever drawn up against Obama. Those were all TV show fodder.

The Democrats drew up articles of impeachment for W Bush over Valerie Plame and the Iraq war, but the Judiciary Committee didn't take action on it before he left office.

 
knapplc said:
I have several close friends whose life Pence would change drastically if he were able. His attack on their lives is unwarranted, as nothing they do affects him.

Pence promotes an anti-gay agenda and advocates conversion therapy.

Pence signed a bill allowing businesses to discriminate against gay customers.

Pence attempted to pass a bill banning same-sex marriage.

Pence is virulently anti-abortion, even in cases of incest & rape.

Pence attempted to control Indiana's newspapers through state-run media filtering.

Pence signed the Religious Freedom and Restoration Act surrounded by priests and nuns.

Pence's Republican-centric policy of slashing taxes has, like Kansas and Louisiana before him, not led to a great economic outcome.

It's easy to see Clinton as evil because of her foundation. But Trump has similarly filtered money through a foundation, and bribed an Attorney General, and Pence still agreed to be on the ticket. If it's evil for Hillary it's evil for Trump, and Pence clearly endorses Trump.

Why did Pence leave Indiana? Clearly the obvious answer is he wanted to be Vice President. Or...

Maybe because, despite his incumbency, he was in a virtual dead-heat in his reelection campaign with a Democrat in a Republican state.

Maybe it's because his popularity numbers were oddly low after representing Indiana in the House and then as Governor.

Or maybe it's because Trump offered Pence the same deal he offered Kasich. Granted, that's speculation about Pence, but smoke often means fire.

I mean... sure, people can agree to disagree. But Clinton has been convicted of exactly as much corruption as Pence. She's even been investigated more.

I'm willing to call her evil, though. Fair is fair.

EDIT

PS: The company he keeps.

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Thanks Knapp. I won't go through the process of addressing each concern you have - most have been discussed on other threads in full and that would derail this thread. I do agree - looking at that picture I see several people I wish he wasn't associated with( Including the one behind the desk). I wished he had jumped off the ticket when the video/audio came out on Trump's lewd speech before the debate - he appeared to be very close to doing so. My thought was at the time that if Pence dropped out the ticket was doomed and maybe the repubs could have pulled the nomination and gotten a better candidate (Kasich/Rubio ticket). When that didn't happen, I think he stayed in out of loyalty to the party and perhaps the party seeing the day if Trump won when Trump might go down in flames and Pence would be there to pick up the pieces - which may still happen. Actually, I don't think the party leaders thought Trump would win I don't think Pence did either - everyone was surprised. Loyalty at that point was resume building for something down the road -- until the surprise of election night and everything changed. This of course is pure speculation on my part.

 
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/US-Trump-Flynn/2017/02/15/id/773725/

Ok - Trump knew that Flynn lied to Pence weeks prior to Pence finding out. A couple of observations from the article:

Where is the trust between Trump and Pence at this point? The 'real inner circle' appears not to include Pence as he was kept in the dark. As big of an issue as the Flynn thing might be, this reveals something that might end up bigger in my opinion - divisions within the administration. These divisions could end up undercutting any effectiveness the admin may have in the area of policy introduction and implementation. If there is a true kitchen cabinet and Pence is on the outside, I think you will see less and less support from Congressional Repubs who see Pence as one of them.

Last Quote below: Trump lashes out again and then blames it back on the losing Hillary campaign. Good grief!!
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Take responsibility and man up. You made a mistake, a error of judgment - own it and correct it and stop blaming others.

I didn't think I'd say it this soon but I suspected it might occur based on the campaign: "I long for the days when we had a grownup in the white house." BO, GWB,GHWB, RR, JC, G Ford, were all grownups in comparison to Trump (can't say Clinton was and we all know why). Whether you agreed with their policies or not, you knew they would act like adults and have the best interest of the country in mind.

quotes:

Pence spokesman Marc Lotter said Pence became aware that he had received "incomplete information" from Flynn only after the first Washington Post report Thursday night. Pence learned about the Justice Department warnings to the White House around the same time.

Pence, who had vouched for Flynn in a televised interview, is said to have been angry and deeply frustrated.

And Trump lashed out at the news media Wednesday morning, sending out a tweet berating some news organizations for focusing on "This Russian connection non-sense." In a post on his verified Twitter account, Trump said, "The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred." He added that the news reporting was "merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made in Hillary Clinton's losing campaign."

 
knapplc said:
It looks like Pence is being set up with plausible deniability so he can take the reins when Trump is ousted.
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Very well could be. I don't know why I think this but I have since Pence was selected as VP and stayed on the ticket at a critical time, but I think the establishment repubs (esp those in Congress) have it in for Trump and they want one of their own available -(Kasich and Pence were both Congressmen) to move into the top spot as soon as the establishment finds a way to rid itself of Trump. I think the establishment repubs were ready to accept and preferred Hillary and were prepared to 'punt' until 2020. So now they are on plan C - behind the scenes I believe they are working wt the press and perhaps the Dems to coordinate Trump's removal. This is all gut feeling and maybe conspiratory
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- not based on the factual evidence you always demand Knapp, however, some time the gut feeling comes from experience and observation. If you think I'm way off base - tell me so and I'll take a chill pill. Trump is his own worse enemy, he has created mistrust and a kitchen cabinet that fosters the mistrust. The administration goes from more crisis points in 3 weeks than the previous admin did in several months.

Knapp, you know I'm not anti-republican, but the repubs will end up in a deep hole during the midterms and in 2020 if they don't get this fixed soon. Their nomination process created a 'mistake' and it was a complete surprise that the mistake found itself into the WH - only because the Dems made a bigger mistake (unless one pins it on the FBI director and Russian hacking)

This article confirms my belief that there is lack of trust within the admin.

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/Flynn-Case-Dysfunction-Dishonesty/2017/02/15/id/773726/

 
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RedDenver said:
knapplc said:
It looks like Pence is being set up with plausible deniability so he can take the reins when Trump is ousted.
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Maybe. But even if Pence is implicated as well, the Presidency would go to Paul Ryan, so the GOP doesn't need Pence.
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True and I like Ryan and he may be more suitable long term to the majority of the electorate than Pence would be. But the damage to get there could be on the scale of Watergate all over.

Speaking of WG:

Since Dan Rather had some integrity problems of his own, I'll post this with a grain of salt:

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/Dan-Rather-Watergate-scandal-Russia/2017/02/15/id/773695/

 
Ryan wouldn't get two full terms if he took over for Trump. It'll be months before Trump is ousted from office (if that ever happens). Ryan stands a solid chance of winning an election and having his own full term(s). They won't waste Ryan on someone else's partial term.

 
Hypothetically, say Trump is removed and Pence is found to be complicit on some level and is ousted too, could Ryan "pass" it on to Orrin? Or is he obligated to take it?

 
knapplc said:
Ryan wouldn't get two full terms if he took over for Trump. It'll be months before Trump is ousted from office (if that ever happens). Ryan stands a solid chance of winning an election and having his own full term(s). They won't waste Ryan on someone else's partial term.
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Something else I hadn't considered before is that if the election was tampered with, the courts have the authority to pretty much do whatever they see fit. The courts could make Clinton the President. The precedent is when a judge replaced a Democrat by a Republican in the Senate due to massive fraud. It's super unlikely, but foreign tampering with the Presidential election is an unprecedented event and the outcome is completely unknown.

 
The only reason I'd welcome a Hillary Clinton presidency is so that everyone on HuskerBoard could see all of us who b!^@h about Trump turn around and b!^@h about Clinton so they'd realize we're being honest when we say we didn't like her, either. Too many people were saying after the election that Clinton would have been just as bad, or if Clinton did "X" then we wouldn't be bitching. We would. Certainly I would. Voting for Clinton was the single most odious vote I've cast in my life.

 
Fru said:
Hypothetically, say Trump is removed and Pence is found to be complicit on some level and is ousted too, could Ryan "pass" it on to Orrin? Or is he obligated to take it?
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The Sec of State is next in line after Ryan - thus Mr Exxon would be next to step into the fray. Remember when Reagan was shot and GHWB was out of DC - I think in Texas - flying on Air Force 2. Alexander Haig, the Sec of State, infamously grabbed the mic and said 'I'm in charge here'.

http://adst.org/2014/03/al-haig-and-the-reagan-assassination-attempt-im-in-charge-here/

However there is more to that story as you read this article . Maybe Haig averted WW3

http://www.worldtribune.com/behind-al-haigs-1981-im-in-control-here-statement/

Flynn, & Felony charges:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-14/mike-flynn-may-face-felony-charges-lying-fbi

 
knapplc said:
The only reason I'd welcome a Hillary Clinton presidency is so that everyone on HuskerBoard could see all of us who b!^@h about Trump turn around and b!^@h about Clinton so they'd realize we're being honest when we say we didn't like her, either. Too many people were saying after the election that Clinton would have been just as bad, or if Clinton did "X" then we wouldn't be bitching. We would. Certainly I would. Voting for Clinton was the single most odious vote I've cast in my life.
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Knapp - I believe you regarding Hillary and I understand why you voted for her over Trump. I think most people get it - we were all placed between a rock and a hard place and choices were made on what we thought was best. I choose not to vote for either for my reasons and you voted for the lessor of the 2 evils.

 
dudeguyy said:
ZRod said:
A part of me doesn't want Trump impeached. Pence is everything I don't want in a President on a different spectrum.
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Pence is wrong within the normal parameters.

Plus, as an added benefit, for those who want to move on from this administration, Pence would be much more predictable in office and have a much harder time appealing to disaffected moderates. The disaffected largely went to Trump because they felt no one else cared about them and he represented an opportunity to blow up the system that had forgotten them. He openly called for their vote to go shake things up.

Pence doesn't have that quality. If he goes full blown social conservative and starts churning out religious freedom laws, the same thing will happen that happened in Indiana. People would feel discriminated against, it will hurt the economy, his popularity will sink, and you can tie those as an electoral anchor around his neck.

You can also undo the damage of a Pence a lot easier than an economic collapse or huge foreign policy blunders Trump could create.
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Yup, just ask Pence's fellow Republicans in the state of Indiana who are systematically fixing everything Pence neglected or broke while in office.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/02/09/pence-gone-fellow-republicans-undo-his-work/97699694/

Their whole legislative session was (almost) a bi-partisan repudiation of Pence's leadership in Indiana. Doesn't bode well for Pence if he were to become President and attempt to be re-elected.

 
knapplc said:
Ryan wouldn't get two full terms if he took over for Trump. It'll be months before Trump is ousted from office (if that ever happens). Ryan stands a solid chance of winning an election and having his own full term(s). They won't waste Ryan on someone else's partial term.
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You can serve for ten years total as president, so if impeachment doesn't happen until two years into the Trump administration (Two years?! We'll likely be in Russian re-education classes at that point, eh Comrade?), Ryan can serve the two to replace Trump/Pence, then be re-elected twice for a total of 10.

 
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