The Right to Carry a Gun

Redux said:
Sure is.  But here's a hypothetical for you.

Class of 20 students, chewing gum is allowed and always has been.  The school consolidates and 10 more kids are added over time.  Now the class is at 30 kids.  They start putting gum in the vending machine, more kids start buying it and chewing it in class.  Some teachers don't like it but it's not a problem.

Then, one day.  The smelly kid up and decides to put gum in the hair of the girl in front of him.  Now we have a problem that has to be dealt with.

Question: Did he put gum in her hair because of the easy access to gum?  Would he have done it had he not been able to buy it?  Is the best course of action to remove gum from the vending machine?  Is the best course of action to ban gum from the classroom?  How can we only punish those who will use gum irresponsibly without restricting the ones chewing gum responsibly?  What made the smelly kid smelly to begin with?

My point, it's not black and white like you want it to be.  Availability is not the only problem here.
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Well if multiple kids started putting gum in peoples hair and it was a regular occurrence I can guarantee the school would ban gum and that would certainly curtail the issue.

 
Nebfanatic said:
Well if multiple kids started putting gum in peoples hair and it was a regular occurrence I can guarantee the school would ban gum and that would certainly curtail the issue.
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Completely?  No.  Because you would still be able to get gum other places if you really wanted to.  And even if they said no more chewing it in class, some still would.  Hell I'd wager that some would even try to put gum in the hair of others because they saw the outrage of the first incident and wanted their 15 minutes of notoriety.

 
Redux said:
Completely?  No.  Because you would still be able to get gum other places if you really wanted to.  And even if they said no more chewing it in class, some still would.  Hell I'd wager that some would even try to put gum in the hair of others because they saw the outrage of the first incident and wanted their 15 minutes of notoriety.
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I can verify this as true.  I worked at a no-gum school and it was a problem.  I have also worked at a gum school and there really are not all that many issues with it.

 
teachercd said:
I can verify this as true.  I worked at a no-gum school and it was a problem.  I have also worked at a gum school and there really are not all that many issues with it.
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As someone who was forced to stay after school and scrape gum off the bottom of desks (not because I was chewing gum), I can attest that gum in schools is a major problem.

 
Bottom line for me is this.  No I don't have any links, sorry.

-Mental illnesses absolutely is a problem in this country.  It's a separate issue fromg gun violence for the most part, but it ABSOLUTELY does factor in.  If you want to tell me the people carrying out these acts aren't at least a little mentally ill, you're being willfully ignorant.

-Gun violence would be reduced by making it nearly impossible to get a gun.  But that would not erase all guns from availability.  They would still exist hidden away and among people who see an illegal profit.  Pretending gun violence, hell all violence, goes away with taking away legal gun ownership is being willfully ignorant.

-Other countries have less gun violence because they took away certain freedoms a long time ago.  Other countries have less gun violence because they aren't the same type of culture.  Can anyone actually compare America to any other country on the planet?  It's not a population thing, it's how we live that is the difference.  We live in a mostly free world at ends with eachother over everything.  We are raised to hate eachother in America, we are taught that violence is acceptable from day 1.  Race, religion, political views, sexuality and gender are all reasons we as Americans harm other Americans.  And if you think THAT isn't the reason we have gun violence, that just gun availability is to blame, the  you are being willfully ignorant.

Thank you and good night.

 
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It's sad that people continue to have a lack of understanding of what mental illness actually is, and how it affects those afflicted.

But it's a testament to how deeply ingrained propaganda becomes, and how hard it is to convince people that it is untrue.

 
commando said:
ok...let's say it is a unidentified mental issue.  what is the solution to stop  the problem?
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Yes!  My god yes, I have been saying that over and over.  Thank you for stating it in such a simple way that no one could argue with it (I don't think)

It is sad that people continue to have a lack of understanding that not everything fits in a little box.  Maybe it does in Norway, I am not sure, I have not been.

BigRedBuster said:
As someone who was forced to stay after school and scrape gum off the bottom of desks (not because I was chewing gum), I can attest that gum in schools is a major problem.
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Did they give you an old paint scraper??  Ha

 
knapplc said:
It's sad that people continue to have a lack of understanding of what mental illness actually is, and how it affects those afflicted.

But it's a testament to how deeply ingrained propaganda becomes, and how hard it is to convince people that it is untrue.
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What's the aimed at exactly?

 
commando said:
ok...let's say it is a unidentified mental issue.  what is the solution to stop  the problem?
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Let's say it's the metric system. It'd be as productive of a conversation.

The problem we're talking about - gun violence affecting others - is literally not a mental health issue. Not respected studies conclude this. All the evidence points away from this being part of the problem. So hypotheticals with this as part of the problem get us nowhere.

 
knapplc said:
Let's say it's the metric system. It'd be as productive of a conversation.

The problem we're talking about - gun violence affecting others - is literally not a mental health issue. Not respected studies conclude this. All the evidence points away from this being part of the problem. So hypotheticals with this as part of the problem get us nowhere.
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i would like to hear the proposed solutions.   so far no one has attempted to supply their answer to the problem.  so far it's just a refusal to admit that limiting gun access would help.

 
Redux said:
-Gun violence would be reduced by making it nearly impossible to get a gun.  But that would not erase all guns from availability.  They would still exist hidden away and among people who see an illegal profit.  Pretending gun violence, hell all violence, goes away with taking away legal gun ownership is being willfully ignorant.
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No one is saying we can completely eliminate gun violence. But isn't reducing gun violence exactly what we are trying to accomplish? 

 
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