Triaging the QB room

gossamorharpy said:
Let this be a lesson to us all- you simply cannot live and die by the portal year in and year out, particularly at a position of utmost important like QB.  I dont like bagging on frosty at this point because its been well covered, but so much of this issue goes back to us hitching our wagon to 2AM and pretty much refusing to bring in another qb until 2am was an upperclassmen.  We as a progrum left very little options besides going into the portal and we're left with a swing and a miss on a portal guy, forcing a local kid who prolly 2nd/3rd string at best, and another project from the portal that simply doesn't seem to P5 material consistently. 

Lets hope Kaelin is the start of us building out a qb room organically and truly up-leveling QBs where they dont play until they're truly ready and their time is now.  
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I agree with your premise on not living in the portal year to year - but we're taking another one next year anyway. I don't think we can count on any true freshman saving us right away. But hopefully down the line we can avoid constantly needing to grab a QB from the portal.

It's also more difficult than it sounds to keep a homegrown QB room. I don't think Martinez was among our biggest problems on the field to be honest, but any 4-year starter is going to make QB recruiting more difficult. If Kaelin wins the job and looks good, that will negatively impact our 2025 and 2026 QB recruiting. Or with the one-time free transfer, at least make it more difficult to keep those guys after they don't win the job.

As far as number of QBs and their qualifications (recruiting ranking and/or play at previous schools), honestly we've done well since Frost's second year. Just through misevaluations or poor coaching, too many have underperformed what you'd expect from their pedigree and experience.

 
Undone said:
It's a good point. Now maybe it's more of limiting dumb interceptions though also. That's been a pretty big problem this season also.

Another thing that's similar to your point would be how we had two key RB's get injured for the season. So maybe the running QB's filled the gaps there because if I'm looking at team stats correctly, we're actually 32nd in the nation in rushing yards per game.

Hard to say all things would have been equal with injuries if Thompson had been the starter but maybe there's something to that one.
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I’m not so sure the posters WR is that much of a good point.  There have been open WR every game that the QB’s just aren’t finding and/or hitting with competent passes.   This is based off user accounts that attended games live, the replays on tv, and Rhule’s press conferences.   Casey’s number were fairly consistent in 2021 and 2022 in terms of completion percentage and yards per game while throwing to non nfl quality receivers outside of Palmer.   
 

As far as the RB’s go and injuries, no doubt that hurts some depth.  But watching EJ play, do we believe the production of the other hurt RB’s would have outpaced EJ’s by very much more?  Probably some in EJ’s  first few games, but I don’t see much of a difference in EJ now vs the years starting RB’s.  
 

Last thing, the running game gets opened up more with a higher quality passing game.   Even though CT can’t run nearly as well as HH or Sims, his increased passing prowess would soften up the safety’s and prevent as much downhill pressure as the offense currently sees.  Maybe also allow the WR’s to get better blocking angles for second level runs. 

 
Archy1221 said:
Last thing, the running game gets opened up more with a higher quality passing game.   Even though CT can’t run nearly as well as HH or Sims, his increased passing prowess would soften up the safety’s and prevent as much downhill pressure as the offense currently sees.  Maybe also allow the WR’s to get better blocking angles for second level runs. 
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Absolutely. I have been saying this for years on this forum.

I'd be thrilled to pieces to land more of that "pass-first" guy out of the transfer portal this offseason. I'm tired of the "stacked box but you're telegraphing a run play" offensive scheme, I just really want to see something different.

And somebody's going to chime in and say "yeah but we're 32nd in the country running the ball this year in rushing yards per game" It's true, but I still think we wind up in a lot of 3rd & longs and we don't have QB's that can handle those situations much at all. 

As far as 2022 was concerned, I really think we would have made a bowl game with Thompson if anybody not named Erik Chinander had been coaching the defense for those first 4 games. It was absolutely f****** stupid to lose 45-42 to Georgia Southern.

 
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Undone said:
Absolutely. I have been saying this for years on this forum.

I'd be thrilled to pieces to land more of that "pass-first" guy out of the transfer portal this offseason. I'm tired of the "stacked box but you're telegraphing a run play" offensive scheme, I just really want to see something different.

And somebody's going to chime in and say "yeah but we're 32nd in the country running the ball this year in rushing yards per game" It's true, but I still think we wind up in a lot of 3rd & longs and we don't have QB's that can handle those situations much at all. 

As far as 2022 was concerned, I really think we would have made a bowl game with Thompson if anybody not named Erik Chinander had been coaching the defense for those first 4 games. It was absolutely f****** stupid to lose 45-42 to Georgia Southern.
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Absolutely.  Tony White coaching last years defense gets the team 7 wins, maybe an 8th. 

 
We are also missing a workhorse run blocker/possession receiver. Palmer and Toure before him, kind of got us some bigger hitters than we have had in our recent history. We need someone who either consistently catches passes with minimal separation or creates explosive run plays with good downfield blocking.

2020: Missing WR (Betts was young/Martin was slow to see the field/JD left)

2019: JD Spielman

2018: JD/Morgan

2017: JD/Morgan

2016: JD/Morgan/Westerkamp

2015: Morgan/Westerkamp

2014: Westerkamp

2013: Westerkamp

2012: Enunwa

2011: Enunwa/Kinnie

2010: Kinnie/Paul

2009: Kinnie/Paul/Holt

I think something missed about even the Pelini into Riley years is that we still had a lot of talent at receiver even if it wasn't just about pass catching. Frost (Joseph) got one year mercenaries, but we just did not keep the overall talent at receiver coming down the pipe. We basically missed down the entire line of WR recruits under Frost and even Robinson had to be taken away from receiver duties to cover RB which probably was another piece of wanting to get out and go back to Kentucky. It started to slip under Riley, but Frost had 5 years to really crash the car on having a core group in the pipes and sprinkling in transfers as they fit. 

 
Lorewarn said:
I don't really get this. Maybe people are seeing something I'm not, but our offense all season has pretty much only worked with the qb run game or threat of the qb run game. It's responsible for almost every single big chunk play we've had all season, so without it, I don't see how our offense would be moving the ball at all.
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Yes, every single chunk play. 

https://x.com/CFBONFOX/status/1715851150413402219?s=20

 
Husker in WI said:
I agree with your premise on not living in the portal year to year - but we're taking another one next year anyway. I don't think we can count on any true freshman saving us right away. But hopefully down the line we can avoid constantly needing to grab a QB from the portal.

It's also more difficult than it sounds to keep a homegrown QB room. I don't think Martinez was among our biggest problems on the field to be honest, but any 4-year starter is going to make QB recruiting more difficult. If Kaelin wins the job and looks good, that will negatively impact our 2025 and 2026 QB recruiting. Or with the one-time free transfer, at least make it more difficult to keep those guys after they don't win the job.

As far as number of QBs and their qualifications (recruiting ranking and/or play at previous schools), honestly we've done well since Frost's second year. Just through misevaluations or poor coaching, too many have underperformed what you'd expect from their pedigree and experience.
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I honestly think we need 2 transfer QBs.  There isnt a qb in the room right now that should even sniff 2nd string for us next year, they've been that pitiful

Wasnt saying martinez was the problem on the field- moreso frost's steadfast loyalty the to guy.  I get the sense he purposely pooched a few recrutiing cycles at the qb spot when 2AM was young and then didnt want to bring anyone in to ruffle feathers.  It left us high and dry leaning on a qb (who was great for us) who pretty much carried us and got beat the hell up and the only backup option frosty seemed intrigued by was mccaffrey and that was a disaster when he was qb.

 
Archy1221 said:
I agree with your last statement for sure.  But look at the receivers he was throwing to and how their careers have turned out.   There was no Trey Palmer on that team, which people were trying to say Casey Thompson was basically HH but without Trey Thompson or running ability.  
 

2021 CT proves that to be false.  And that’s all I was getting across 
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I’m not trying to say HH is better. But am saying that Thompson staying wouldn’t automatically equate to more wins. Hate to say it, but we are probably closer to FAU talent than what he had at Texas. Better talent, he’s looked better. But it’s a circular firing squad. Did he make his receivers better or did they make him better. If he’s “that good” he should make those better around him.  Or better receivers make him look better. But that’s just me.  TBH, I was never that high on Casey. Or Sims. Or HH….

 
Born N Bled Red said:
Yes, every single chunk play. 

https://x.com/CFBONFOX/status/1715851150413402219?s=20
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1. I didn't say every single

2. I already addressed this. The play you're referencing is an option pass, which worked because the defense bit on the threat of the qb run on the option, which is part of what I was specifically referring to with the qb run game being "responsible for almost every single big chunk play we've had all season".

Very clearly and intentionally did not say that every play came on qb runs. Awesome play though.

 
JJ Husker said:
I mean I sort of get it.

No amount of message board discussion is going to change the QB room diagnosis from critical/near death. Tough to “triage” when there is no pulse to be found. But yeah, it can be passed by easily by anyone who doesn’t want to see it.

I was just giving him the business (as Wally Clever would say).
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I appreciate the business. I simply want something worthwhile on the board to talk about you know? Why isn't there 64 pages about the defense who plays good football? Why must we grind this dead horse into pulp when it's not changing this year? In just curious about that mostly. 

@Archy1221I like to hit "next unread topic" as I enjoy reading the messages, but do get annoyed sometimes when it's the same crap over and over and over.  Make sense?  I feel like that's a fair opinion.

 
runningblind said:
I appreciate the business. I simply want something worthwhile on the board to talk about you know? Why isn't there 64 pages about the defense who plays good football? Why must we grind this dead horse into pulp when it's not changing this year? In just curious about that mostly. 

@Archy1221I like to hit "next unread topic" as I enjoy reading the messages, but do get annoyed sometimes when it's the same crap over and over and over.  Make sense?  I feel like that's a fair opinion.
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Because how else are the keyboard warriors supposed to belittle and talk crap to you when the topic is something everyone generally agrees on?!?! ;)

 
runningblind said:
Why isn't there 64 pages about the defense who plays good football?
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Tom_osborne_blackshirt.gif


 
Here’s an example of a play where a better QB very well could have made the difference.  It’s also one showing that we do have a receiver getting open deep.  Thompson very well could have thrown this just like he did to Trey.  
 


 
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