Weird Time for Christians

Landlord said:
I'm already beyond exhausted with the "reconciliation porn" of this story. 

Bonhoefer called forgiveness without repentance cheap grace, and when white people keep praising black forgiveness but still refuse to validate black anger or to be outraged by unjust and non-equitable punishments, that just feels like relatively empty tone policing to me. 
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and your comments are directed at... :dunno    I think you protest a bit too much on this. 

Bonhoefer is talking about cheap grace if I presume forgiveness but never repent.  However, on the personal level - person to person, forgiveness as an act can have 2 results  1. It frees the forgiver of the bitterness of heart that can come from an offense.  Bitterness is the 'is the poison we wish on someone else but drinking it ourself'.   2. Can be the spark in the soul for the forgiven to repent.  In this case, Amber has to decide what to do with it - repent or keep her heart hard.  

Forgiveness does not dismiss or minimize injustice or non-equitable punishments.  I look at this story and see Christian people, in spite of the injustice, doing the Christ like thing - forgiving.  I don't see a AA man forgiving a white woman.  I see a man forgiving someone who sinned against him and his family .... deeply.  Which only magnifies the grace given.  The injustice and non-equitable punishment issues aren't to be minimized or over looked but those are separate actions - separate discussions. 

 
BlitzFirst said:
I thought that I got taken to the woodshed for insisting that politics were present in churches?  Now the tweet above says exactly that?  :sarcasm

I guess that's interesting.
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The tweet doesn’t at all validate what you were posting. There isn’t any data involved whatsoever unless I’m missing a link. It’s just Trump puking out something with no evidence followed by someone replying to his puke with no evidence. 

 
BlitzFirst said:
I didn't say it validated anything...but it made the same claim I did previously.  I looked through the comments of the tweet and no one ripped the author telling him how wrong he was.

Just found it interesting.  I guess on the internet, you're wrong depending on who the information is consumed by.
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The disconnect is where the politics is coming from.

You were trying to argue that it was coming from the top of the churches down.  Which, you had major push back...and rightfully so.  The posters that pushed back are regular church goers and told you they do not see politics in church on Sundays.  It's not coming from the top down and being preached to the congregation.

I posted the above mentioned tweet because it does still hold true.  Christians need to depoliticize their churches.  I took that as meaning the Christian population needs to disconnect their faith with a political party or politicians.  THAT does need to happen and it's not what you were trying to imply.

 
BlitzFirst said:
I didn't say it validated anything...but it made the same claim I did previously.  I looked through the comments of the tweet and no one ripped the author telling him how wrong he was.

Just found it interesting.  I guess on the internet, you're wrong depending on who the information is consumed by.
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You’re wrong depending on whether the facts support what you’re saying. Your claim is deemed unsubstantiated by a discerning audience if you make a claim based on data you can’t find. 

The people who post in the P&R forum are going to be more questioning/discerning than the average tweeter who is commenting on someone they chose to follow/tend to agree with. Most of us think politics and religion should be separate and politics shouldn’t be in churches, but that doesn’t mean we’re just going to take some random’s word for it that politics is widespread in churches, especially those of us who are Christian and know lots of Christians.

 
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BlitzFirst said:
Cool.  I'm just glad I'm not the only one saying it.  I don't care if you guys feel its wrong or not because it's subjective and non-quantifiable currently.  So I am stoked that someone else has similar opinions as mine...and on a much larger platform than Huskerboard.
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Cool....even though their opinions might not be the same as yours. 

 
BlitzFirst said:
Cool.  I'm just glad I'm not the only one saying it.  I don't care if you guys feel its wrong or not because it's subjective and non-quantifiable currently.  So I am stoked that someone else has similar opinions as mine...and on a much larger platform than Huskerboard.
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If what that tweet said would have been your opinion, we all would have agreed with you. It was when you dug your boots in to try and argue some extreme specific claims of things like pastors telling their congregations how to vote that you lost everyone.

 
BlitzFirst said:
I didn't claim pastors tell their congregation members how to vote. 
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You said that evangelical and catholic churches take official stances on political items, that their churches encourage their membership to be pro-life, and that 90% of them take political stances. 

 
BlitzFirst said:
So, the tweet above shows that the author wishes politics and religion shouldnt' mix.


How is it you think that me saying politics inside of churches isn't cool is different?

Keep in mind, I found it interesting the above tweet wasn't discussed about how wrong it was when it was posted (not by me mind you) and it was allowed to stand without so much of a second thought.  It was interesting...I thought you guys would go after the author for making the claim (at least here in the forum...maybe not on twitter).

Now you're telling me the tweet and what I argued don't match up and I have to dig out a quote to show it does.  Kinda crazy.
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I'm not going to have this entire conversation with you again.  Go back and reread this thread and you will get your answers.  It's been told to you by a number of posters over and over again and you refuse to see it.

 
You got dug for saying specific things like churches tell their members how to vote.

You did not get dug for the uncontroversial and obviously true general idea that churches are tainted with political influence.

 
BlitzFirst said:
The above quote is from me at the beginning.  I never said that churches tell their members how to vote. 
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You said a lot of different things that were not all consistent with each other.

BlitzFirst said:
and I know both of these encourage their membership to be pro-life and vote accordingly.
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I guess you can try and semantics your way out of a distinction between tell and encourage, but that's what everyone except you read out of this, and even giving you the benefit of the doubt, a lot of folks still responded to you with, "No, my church does not encourage me to vote a specific way or encourage me to vote at all." 

 
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