Weird Time for Christians

Finally a voice of reason from Evangelical circles.  Of course the cult followers denial of its conservative cred only highlights more the cult like trademarks of this president, the admin, and his supporters.

 
More from the CT article above.  This I think is the defining quote of the article.  He defines the 'rock and the hard place' that some evangelicals & conservatives in general find themselves in.  Trump has done some things that we support however as the article states

it is not in balance with the immoral character he exhibits.  As Christians, our first obligation is not towards a certain political position on the subjects important to us (abortion being just one) but rather to the Lord of our faith.  When our anxiety about an issue causes us to transfer our trust from God to a man, and esp a man of Trump's character, we have denied our faith in that case, and fail to acknowledge our God's sovereignty in all things - if one man fails, God can raise up another man or woman to do His work of being 'Justice Bearers" (whether they proclaim to be Christian or not). Our obligation as believers is to be discerning.  In this case, I believe that Trump is not worthy of this high calling.   I am not obligate to support him just because he has supported the side of an issue that I stand for.  Fidelity to moral uprightness must come before loyalty to any man.

So really there is no rock and hard place if one is clear thinking about their loyalties.  Matt 6 states we cannot serve two masters.  If we are clear minded, we will be faithful to God's word and leave political dogma loyalty in

its dust. 

Trump’s evangelical supporters have pointed to his Supreme Court nominees, his defense of religious liberty, and his stewardship of the economy, among other things, as achievements that justify their support of the president. We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear, in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president’s moral deficiencies for all to see. This damages the institution of the presidency, damages the reputation of our country, and damages both the spirit and the future of our people. None of the president’s positives can balance the moral and political danger we face under a leader of such grossly immoral character.
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This is so vitally important - I guess I said something similar above.

Unfortunately, the words that we applied to Mr. Clinton 20 years ago apply almost perfectly to our current president. Whether Mr. Trump should be removed from office by the Senate or by popular vote next election—that is a matter of prudential judgment. That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments.

To the many evangelicals who continue to support Mr. Trump in spite of his blackened moral record, we might say this: Remember who you are and whom you serve. Consider how your justification of Mr. Trump influences your witness to your Lord and Savior. Consider what an unbelieving world will say if you continue to brush off Mr. Trump’s immoral words and behavior in the cause of political expediency. If we don’t reverse course now, will anyone take anything we say about justice and righteousness with any seriousness for decades to come? Can we say with a straight face that abortion is a great evil that cannot be tolerated and, with the same straight face, say that the bent and broken character of our nation’s leader doesn’t really matter in the end?
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Joshua 24:15 seems appropriate with this quote below:  15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood(TG: Maybe we have generations of GOP support in our family), or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell (TG: the trump version of conservatism perhaps) : but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

We have reserved judgment on Mr. Trump for years now. Some have criticized us for our reserve. But when it comes to condemning the behavior of another, patient charity must come first. So we have done our best to give evangelical Trump supporters their due, to try to understand their point of view, to see the prudential nature of so many political decisions they have made regarding Mr. Trump. To use an old cliché, it’s time to call a spade a spade, to say that no matter how many hands we win in this political poker game (TG: Or how many pro-life judges Trump appoints), we are playing with a stacked deck of gross immorality and ethical incompetence. And just when we think it’s time to push all our chips to the center of the table, that’s when the whole game will come crashing down. It will crash down on the reputation of evangelical religion and on the world’s understanding of the gospel. And it will come crashing down on a nation of men and women whose welfare is also our concern.
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I wonder if that changes any minds. If anything were to it would be something like this. Trump attacking the magazine as a far left source confirms everything the article says. Well done Trump! 

 
TGHusker said:
More from the CT article above.  This I think is the defining quote of the article.  He defines the 'rock and the hard place' that some evangelicals & conservatives in general find themselves in.  Trump has done some things that we support however as the article states

it is not in balance with the immoral character he exhibits.  As Christians, are first obligation is not towards a certain political position on the subjects important to us (abortion being just one) but rather to Lord of our faith.  When our anxiety about an issue causes us to transfer our trust from God to a man, and esp a man of Trump's character, we have denied our faith in that case, and fail to acknowledge our God's sovereignty in all things - if one man fails, God can raise up another man or woman to do His work of being 'Justice Bearers" (whether they proclaim to be Christian or not). Our obligation as believers is to be discerning.  In this case, I believe that Trump is not worthy of this high calling.   I am not obligate to support him just because he has supported the side of an issue that I stand for.  Fidelity

to moral uprightness must come before loyalty to any man.

This is so vitally important - I guess I said something similar above.

Joshua 24:15 seems appropriate with this quote below:  15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood(TG: Maybe we have generations of GOP support in our family), or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell (TG: the trump version of conservatism perhaps) : but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
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TG - how influencial is this mag in religious circles?

 
Nebfanatic said:
I wonder if that changes any minds. If anything were to it would be something like this. Trump attacking the magazine as a far left source confirms everything the article says. Well done Trump! 
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Got that right.   It proves also the cultishness of the Trump movement also when you see others bad mouthing a clearly well written, thoughtful article that even 'tips the hat' towards Trump when he did the 'right' things. 

If they call this far left it is more of an indictment on themselves - it shows how ALT RIGHT they have become. 

If Jesus, Himself, would have called out Trump like he did the pharisees & religious rulers of his day, Trump would have responded in a similar fashion.  Remember Trump said once in an interview that he's never had to ask God's forgiveness, he's never done anything worthy of an apology.

It is like the story -  The art critic isn't judging the art, rather it is the art that is judging him.  The CT article is judging (not in the spirit of being judgmental but in restorative truth) Trump not the other way around.

One of my favorite Normal Rockwell paintings  The Art Critic

art_critic.jpg


 
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NM11046 said:
TG - how influencial is this mag in religious circles?
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Over the decades it has been very influential.  As is the case wt most print media I think it has lost some of that influence.  However, coinciding with that decline however is the rising up of the generations after the baby boomers who question things more and aren't as loyal to the GOP/evangelical 'marriage'. 

 
TGHusker said:
If Jesus, Himself, would have called out Trump like he did the pharisees & religious rulers of his day, Trump would have responded in a similar fashion. 
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A little off topic but this part of your post struck me. How would Jesus be recieved today? My guess is he would be outcast and targeted the same today as he was 2000+ years ago. I think some(maybe many) Christian organizations would be against Jesus in the same way the ancient pharisees were. An interesting thought experiment for sure.

 
Nebfanatic said:
A little off topic but this part of your post struck me. How would Jesus be recieved today? My guess is he would be outcast and targeted the same today as he was 2000+ years ago. I think some(maybe many) Christian organizations would be against Jesus in the same way the ancient pharisees were. An interesting thought experiment for sure.
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I think Jesus would be at the boarder speaking about the immigrant & our responsibility to help the stranger in our land, at the abortion clinic visiting one on one wt the troubled lady debating if she should keep her child, also encouraging the young lady at the crisis pregnancy center who is trying to plan her future with her new baby, he'd turn over the offering buckets at many of the mega churches (looking at you Joel Olsteen, etc), he'd be calling out politicians and religious people who give lip service to justice but line their pockets on the backs of the poor, he would address the 1%ers by asking them to give their riches, serve the poor and follow him (and like the example in the Bible - they would walk away because they had only one master - money).  Helping out at the food pantry and visiting the local hospital and showing appreciation to today's healers - doctors & nurses,etc.  He would also say again "Those not against us are for us" - so let them continue their good works even if they aren't walking directly with us. 

 
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