**** What we learned - Illinois edition ****

[carlfense]

Statistically that may be true . . .

#EyeTest

This is getting pretty tangential, but per Wikipedia his Rating was 138.8, 126.5, 141.6, 140.0 for an average of 136.3 over his career. Obviously rating is just one flawed metric, and statistics in general don't come close to telling the whole story.

And almost 30 fumbles in two years? Going from memory . . . or maybe that's the old #eyetest bias.

 

[knapplc]

And almost 30 fumbles in two years? Going from memory . . . or maybe that's the old #eyetest bias.

One of his many records.

 

[WhatDoIKnow]

Wow. We learned more from the Illinois game than I thought.

 

[carlfense]

ANYWAYS. How about those 2014 Huskers, eh?

 

[The Dude]

Better throwing mechanics, yes, at times be does, but he isn't the better passer.

If you wish to continue believing this, I highly recommend you don't review Taylor's passing stats through the first 5 games of his sophomore season.

Why do i need to go back that far, he was horrible for his whole career,,right?

I don't think he was ever horrible. The point was Tommy is further along in his passing development as a sophomore.

 

[knapplc]

The point was Tommy is further along in his passing development as a sophomore.

I'm not sure how this is even being debated. Tommy is a far more natural passer, has better mechanics, and has a better future in the passing game than Martinez had in his Sophomore year. To Taylor's credit he gave up Spring Break and chunks of his summer two years in a row to work with a QB specialist to improve, and he did, but he never was and never will be a natural passer. He's an athlete who played QB, and who worked damned hard to try to fit the system he was in better.

To those of you throwing either Tommy or Taylor under the bus, it's possible to like both guys, to be happy both play(ed) here, and to have concerns about each guy's game. I loved Taylor here, warts in his game and all, but I love Tommy just the same.

The future looks bright. I can't understand the seeming need some have to talk down about either guy.



And I'll add this with Mod Hat firmly in place: There's no future here for a conversation denouncing Tommy Armstrong for the sole purpose of counterpointing the criticism Taylor Martinez received while he was our quarterback. Someone has openly admitted to doing this, it's trolling, and it's going to stop.

 

[BigRedBuster]

The point was Tommy is further along in his passing development as a sophomore.

I'm not sure how this is even being debated. Tommy is a far more natural passer, has better mechanics, and has a better future in the passing game than Martinez had in his Sophomore year. To Taylor's credit he gave up Spring Break and chunks of his summer two years in a row to work with a QB specialist to improve, and he did, but he never was and never will be a natural passer. He's an athlete who played QB, and who worked damned hard to try to fit the system he was in better.

To those of you throwing either Tommy or Taylor under the bus, it's possible to like both guys, to be happy both play(ed) here, and to have concerns about each guy's game. I loved Taylor here, warts in his game and all, but I love Tommy just the same.

The future looks bright. I can't understand the seeming need some have to talk down about either guy.


And I'll add this with Mod Hat firmly in place: There's no future here for a conversation denouncing Tommy Armstrong for the sole purpose of counterpointing the criticism Taylor Martinez received while he was our quarterback. Someone has openly admitted to doing this, it's trolling, and it's going to stop.

It is engrained in Husker fans to do two things:

a) Be nice to opposing teams fans

b) Rip apart our own team/coaches/players.

 

[JJ Husker]

Well, sorry if I misinterpreted this statement.

Beck has done well all year minus the mcneese state game.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The games Beck called against Miami and Illinois were noticeably improved from the previous three games. Specifically he seemed to stick with what was working while also exploiting what the defense was giving us. Previously he would try to out guess the D, force things he thought would be there, and generally get in his own way. IMO the change from the first three games to the last two has been quite remarkable and obvious.

To me, I took that as you saying he did a bad job in the first three games and good job in the last two.

I sort of said that but then chose to back off of it some. It is more I believe he has done better in the last two games than he did in the first three games. But yes, as a five game body of work, he has done pretty well this year compared to previous seasons. Those few dumb choices just really stick out to me. I guess because better teams will make us pay for them moreso than the teams we have played thus far, so I find any bad calls worrisome.

 

[QMany]

Mitch Sherman ‏@mitchsherman 14m
Bo Pelini, at press conf., says Ameer Abdullah and Josh Mitchell are in good health after Sunday practice. Still uncertain on David Santos.

 

[StPaulHusker]

What I learned:

Tommy has to stop looking for a play on every passing down. If it's not there tuck and run and punt or throw away and punt.

Illinois played RG4 straight up. Sometimes double teamed but nothing dirty from what I saw. That is commendable.

How is Adam Taylor, Mikael Wilbon, or Kendall Bussey going to see the field with a guy like Jordan Nelson on the team?

 

[Branno]

MO:

How the heck is that an apt comparison at all?

You compared TMart's FRESHMAN season when we fully knew he was the QB Bo and Beck had hitched their wagon to TA's first season as a starter during which he only started 8 games when Taylor went down? And that's counting the Penn State game where he was 1 for 2 before he left the game?

That's a terrible comp. Apples and oranges if I've ever seen it. That offense ran through TMart's ability to run the zone read. Of course his running numbers are going to be superior to TA's. And last year they had the kid gloves on with TA since they didn't even plan on him being the starter until TM went down.

I see why you ended the debate. If you didn't want to get hammered, don't use such a ridiculous comparison.

I'm not getting hammered, I just think we need to stop with the comparisons between the two QBs. Especially comparisons like a full sophomore year for TM to 5 games for TA. It's why I chose full seasons (for the most part) to compare.

Both have their upsides and downsides. Eventually we will all look back to TM and see how good he truly was. TA has a lot to prove still, and If he can make just a few improvements to his game could be really special (especially with the talent that surrounds him). I still have reservations about TA but I like what I've seen so far for the most part. Hopefully he keeps the turnovers low and doesn't regress to last year. Hopefully he stops making bad throws to open receivers when he has plenty of time to make a good throw. I think he can do it. The question is will he?

But I mostly agree with Knapp. Why do some have to disparage a former QB to support the current one? This isn't a zero sum issue.

 

[74Hunter]

I have a question. How much better do you really think the offensive line is this year than years past? I think it may be a little better, but it's not leaps and bounds. Let's look at what we do offensively. First off, we have a transcending player for a running back. Makes the whole offense look good. Taylor didnt really have that. Yeah, I loved Burkhead too, but he was nowhere close to the caliber that Ameer Abdullah is today. It's just a hard fact of life. But the other thing is Tommy's ability and, more importantly, willingness to stretch the field vertically on a routine basis has done so much to open up this offense in the box. it's a night and day difference. Combine that with the fact that Tommy is obviously more comfortable with the read action in the zone game, and his mesh with Ameer is the prettiest thing I've ever seen. It's my opinion but to Tommy is already better than Taylor ever was when it comes to doing what a qb should do, and that's lead the offense. There's much more to it than nitpicking stats and picks and completion percentage. It's how the team responds to the leadership and what the qb brings to the table from a threat standpoint.

Couldn't agree more. I do think the O line is better this year but possibly simply because it is healthier at this point in time. The thing is, the whole dynamic and synergy is what makes things click. When the passing game is a credible threat, it helps open up the running game and vice versa. Plus, this may just be my impression but, I think Tommy's leadership, presence, whatever you want to call it, inspires the players around him to give a little bit more. Taylor was a great individual talent with the ability to take it to the house on any play but I feel the rest of the team understands that TA is going to try to stay within himself more, stick with the system, and not try to do it all alone. I think that has a huge impact on the mindset and effort the other 10 players give every down.
If I had to rank the reasons for the success of this years offense compared to previous seasons they would be;

1A- The combination of all of the following

1- Offensive Line play

2- Ameer and the running backs

3- Beck's play calling

4- Quarterback play- Tommy A.

I'd say their pass pro is much better this year than in the recent past, but the run blocking lacks at times. Ameer really makes them look good at times.

I'd say the OL is deeper than it has been since the late 90s or early 2000s.

 

[Danny Bateman]

MO:

How the heck is that an apt comparison at all?

You compared TMart's FRESHMAN season when we fully knew he was the QB Bo and Beck had hitched their wagon to TA's first season as a starter during which he only started 8 games when Taylor went down? And that's counting the Penn State game where he was 1 for 2 before he left the game?

That's a terrible comp. Apples and oranges if I've ever seen it. That offense ran through TMart's ability to run the zone read. Of course his running numbers are going to be superior to TA's. And last year they had the kid gloves on with TA since they didn't even plan on him being the starter until TM went down.

I see why you ended the debate. If you didn't want to get hammered, don't use such a ridiculous comparison.

I'm not getting hammered, I just think we need to stop with the comparisons between the two QBs. Especially comparisons like a full sophomore year for TM to 5 games for TA. It's why I chose full seasons (for the most part) to compare.

Both have their upsides and downsides. Eventually we will all look back to TM and see how good he truly was. TA has a lot to prove still, and If he can make just a few improvements to his game could be really special (especially with the talent that surrounds him). I still have reservations about TA but I like what I've seen so far for the most part. Hopefully he keeps the turnovers low and doesn't regress to last year. Hopefully he stops making bad throws to open receivers when he has plenty of time to make a good throw. I think he can do it. The question is will he?

But I mostly agree with Knapp. Why do some have to disparage a former QB to support the current one? This isn't a zero sum issue.

I don't know... that's a good question. I've never understood why people feel the need to choose sides for something like that. Don't misunderstand me... I'm not pro-TA or anti-TM or anything. I support both of them. I think this just boils down to a matter of preference. You'd take TMart and his proven ability to lead the offense, albeit with some ugly (but improved) throwing mechanics and fumbling risk. I'd take the unproven but seemingly improving TA as I feel he's more well rounded and has a chance to develop into a better overall QB.

I will say last year I was all aboard the TA bandwagon after TMart went down. I was upset they let him start the Minnesota game and what do you know, we lost that game. Besides our offensive line not showing up and the Gophers playing a hell of a game, it was clear TM was not right during that game, so it was a perfect storm for a loss. Of course they had a high round draft pick in Hageman clogging up the middle. Nonetheless, I was upset to see Beck leave Taylor in there when it was obvious he was still hurting bad, but I credit TMart for big tough enough to try to grit that one out.

Either way, we've got one great NU QB and one who has a chance to develop into a great one.

Making fun of or disparaging either one is immature and unnecessary.

I'll say this about TMart: it really is a shame that ankle never healed up right. It would've been something to see had he fully developed without that hampering him. Especially because my Eagles signed him and he subsequently failed his physical.

And as for TA: I really do think he is primed for a good game Saturday. I guarantee he remembers last year. He alluded to it in the preset, saying if we turnover the ball like last year we lose. I bet that has a fire lit in his belly. He'll want to play a great game. Beck has done a great job so far of putting him in a position to succeed. He's no forcing TA to make risky low percentage throws when the running game is obviously there. That said, Tommy seems to force two or three throws a game he shouldn't and it usually results in a couple batted passes and one pick. So, I'm gearing up for at least one turnover from TA Saturday. If he can play lights out outside of that, I love our chances.

 

[Landlord]

Taylor improved throughout his career. The only thing that kept him from getting better was injury.

Statistically that may be true . . . but he still had that same panicked look . . . and the same questions about how much his teammates liked him as their QB.

His game always reminded me of a 14 year old kid who was handed the keys to a Ferrari. Fantastic athlete but his brain didn't seem to move as quickly as his feet.

bullsh#t man. He got better statistically, fundamentally, and with leadership and performance, all while dealing with nonstop injuries that would leave you in bed.

Taylor was the driving force behind the Ohio State comeback in 2011, he was also the leader of the Wisconsin comeback in 2012. He's not the only but he's the biggest reason we won against Northwestern, Michigan, Michigan State and Penn State (all while primarily needing to throw the ball because we were down, p.s.), and he had a 9 to 1 touchdown/interception ratio before going out last season, with a broken foot.

The questions about being liked by his teammates in his later years here are in your head.

 

[carlfense]

Nerve = struck.

The personal bit was a nice touch, though.