What would make people feel less ostracized from P&R?
- Thread starter knapplc
- Start date
BIGREDIOWAN
Mods
Don't believe you for a second that you weren't meaning that towards me and while we let things slide in the politics and religion forum some of this is getting out of control and spills out into other parts of the board from time-to-time. That's where it becomes even more of a problem. It starts showing up in status updates, then it spills into recruiting, it gets reined in and then put in the woodshed. You get the point, folks don't want to visit this part of the board. Is that their problem? Or this part of the boards problem? I'm not sure that's as easy an answer as folks would like to think.
BIGREDIOWAN
Mods
knapplc
Active member
Then take it up with the rest of the mods and stop threatening me in this forum. Seriously. Go to the Mod forum and accuse me of "veiled attacks that you must assume is you being sly and skirting the rules" about you. Provide proof, and listen to what they tell you.
If you don't want people posting political commentary or references to this forum in Status Updates, stop them. You're a Mod. You can do that. Make a rule addendum and prohibit any political talk outside this forum. Easily fixed.
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TGHusker
New member
Knapp, glad you started this. I frankly was getting tired of the political talk. It can be draining always defending one self or thinking you have to- that is what I see the problem is. As you know, I was not a Trump fan, nor did I vote for him because of his personal issues and some of his stated policies during the campaign. I also could not vote for Hillary and ended up voting the under card. From a conservative stand point, he may accomplish some good things but yet there is a whole lot of 'other' mixed in with it. I should feel free to support the areas that I think he is doing ok in and also be able to voice my disagreements with his actions as needed. But this thread isn't about Trump.
My biggest beef has become that people are talking over each other. There is very little trying to 'understand' each other. Since it appears the left of center and liberal voice is represented more so, those of us who are more right of center or even 'right wing' are shouted down - wt the common group think from the left (and group think goes the other way also). So many times I've stated how much I appreciate hearing the views of those I don't agree with, as it gave me an understanding on why they think the way they do, why they believe a problem should be solved 'this' way and not 'that' way. I think most people are well intended but not always well informed (myself included at times) and when we shout someone down for expressing their views, we are doing a piss poor job of educating and bringing understanding to that person. We also fail to learn from them. However, I see too many people trying to nail others with 'zingers' and it becomes a 'gotcha' game. I don't hear many voicing appreciation from the left side of the court towards their more conservative buddies on this forum for an idea expressed that might be different than their own. We all have filters, and if we think we don't we are self deceived. Also, I think our political leanings can be somewhat wired in us through environment, nurturing, nature, social constructs, etc and etc -. We are all progressing towards maturity (My wife would like to see it happen more quickly
There is a saying, Knowledge makes for swelled heads, while love makes for swelled hearts. Ya - kind of mushy, valentinie, but the principle is that if we are here to impart our knowledge out of an arrogant spirit and superiority, we will fail at the love part - the caring for our Husker (or non-Husker brother) who may need our 'enlightened' help. The liberals don't have the corner on knowledge and ideas and neither do conservatives. We all want to see right solutions to the problems we face as a nation, but there are many paths to those solutions. Some issues have a 'moral' high ground and some do not.
As the saying goes, Seek first to understand, then to be understood.
BIGREDIOWAN
Mods
Please show me where I threatened you at any point and time in here? I never did, sorry if you feel that way, that's your issue as well. You can feel free to take it up with the mods and admin's yourself if you'd like. You created this thread for a discussion, I pointed out some issues that have led to some of this, you didn't like that.
Atbone95
New member
Most people on the board (in here) seem incapable (most times) of doing this:
https://www.ted.com/talks/robb_willer_how_to_have_better_political_conversations
https://www.ted.com/talks/robb_willer_how_to_have_better_political_conversations
B.B. Hemingway
Donor
So you don't think that they're at any fault for their circumstances? I won't sit here and pretend they don't have their own set of societal hurdles they have to manage, but I'd argue that if slavery/segregation were still holding their race back, you wouldn't see so many go on to successful careers, and lives in general. If that were the case wouldn't they ALL be limited in life? Also, being at fault of your own circumstances isn't just a 'black' issue, many white people can't get out of poverty because they (like other races) can't get out of their own way. Racism is alive and well (as the Trump candidacy showed us), but I think it's time for everyone to take some responsibility for how their lives turn out.... Again, that also goes for the poor white people who think the 'black president' took their lives from them...I'm of the mind that 200 years of slavery, another hundred years of segregation and denied civil rights, and inadequate and frequently challenged measures of remedy play the only meaningful role in that particular discussion.
Sorry to have attacked you
Landlord
Banned
No, they wouldn't be. That's like arguing in defense of slavery in the 1800's because SOME black people are free, or get to live in the master's house.
General truths apply to the aggregate - they are not an inflexible gospel truth that applies to every individual.
knapplc
Active member
OK.
Very first thing you said. It's a reference to Rule #1:
I've underlined the consequences for that for you. If you're not threatening me with the consequences of a personal attack accusation, that was an exceedingly poor choice of words.
B.B. Hemingway
Donor
So the effects of slavery are different for each black person in 2017? And would that same concept of general truths also apply to White privilege? Because some people seem to think that's all encompassing....
Enhance
Administrator
We've already had a debate in the Woodshed about the P&R forum, its place on the board and it "spilling" into other parts of the forum. I believe the Shed would be a better avenue to continue arguing this particular concern.
BRI, I respect your opinion on this forum, but it draws a considerable amount of ire from you while I almost never see you post anything about the arguments and behavior that spill out from the recruiting forum. My sincerest apologies if you have; but, my overall point is things spill out from several forums on this board. P&R may do so more than others, but, that's also the nature of politics in general.
BRI, I respect your opinion on this forum, but it draws a considerable amount of ire from you while I almost never see you post anything about the arguments and behavior that spill out from the recruiting forum. My sincerest apologies if you have; but, my overall point is things spill out from several forums on this board. P&R may do so more than others, but, that's also the nature of politics in general.
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zoogs
New member
No. Systemic disadvantages don't stop everybody, and credit to those who fight and overcome it. It's just a cost that reduces the odds of success and perpetuates that cycle.
The other argument is that black culture is responsible for holding people back. This is not an "individual responsibility" argument. It's an invidious one, although perhaps not obviously, and it's spread for the purpose of building resistance to the most urgently needed social programs.
I think back to what Obama said -- many of the voters outside his political base do not resent government assistance. In fact, a lot of them depend on it. However, when that assistance starts being targeted at people who look different than they do, or are part of a more lazy/less worthy culture, then the rage spills out. This is why I picked out that line in particular to challenge. I believe that if it is not, then it is accepted; and if accepted, these types of policy changes follow.
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knapplc
Active member
Is this what they describe in that TED Talk?
If you think you've been "kicked around," how would you describe these quotes?