What's the biggest reason for Blacks not advancing

Where you're right is that we should always seek out all of the facts.

Where you're wrong is that being innocent by the legal process does not necessarily mean being morally innocent, or even innocent whatsoever.

 
tschu said:
Where you're right is that we should always seek out all of the facts.

Where you're wrong is that being innocent by the legal process does not necessarily mean being morally innocent, or even innocent whatsoever.
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I never said anything about the morality of the innocence. It simply means a person is "innocent" as deemed by the court. OJ? Zimmerman? Casey Anthony? Those are 3 in which people were deemed innocent, but people still believe them guilty and they are morally responsible. Right or wrong, it is our system.

I am just saying, the cop deserves a fair trial if it comes to that.

 
Well your comment is directed at the commenters in this thread, who of course have no say in his legal due process. We can only come to our own moral, and possibly legal, opinions. I fully recognize that nothing I say is going to affect how this cop is treated in court, but it doesn't matter to me. If the facts point to him being guilty of some form of wrongdoing, I'm going to point that out. First Amendment.

 
BIGREDIOWAN said:
carlfense said:
tschu said:
Releasing the robbery report but not the shooting report at the same time is super-lol. Especially since the officer in question had zero knowledge of the robbery.
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Exactly. There is only one reason why that would be released . . . and some people are jumping all over it. I suppose that shouldn't surprise me.
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Don't know if you mean me or not? If you do just say so and don't beat around the bush. They aren't going to release the bulk of the information because it's still being investigated. I think they should've released some info at the same time as the video, but they may not be able to release anymore info until the investigation is finished.
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It wasn't directed at you. That was more about a certain online media presence.

I did direct some later questions towards you. Does your department allow unattributed reports to be released directly to the public . . . no officers name on the bottom?

 
tschu said:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html
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Ugh. So...

Character Assassination: revealing that Brown was filmed robbing a convenience store less than an hour before allegedly assaulting a cop and being shot to death.

Relevant Information: A 5 year old case of police abuse in Ferguson that did not involve the officer who shot Brown, nor did it involve Ferguson's current police chief.

I mean...just saying it's kind of hard to take complaints about "thugifying" Brown seriously when those same people (weakly) try to tar the police as racists.

 
LukeinNE said:
He'd allegedly just assaulted a police officer and tried to take his gun. The man is big enough he could probably kill someone with his bare hands. I don't think the jump to "reasonably believed" he was an imminent danger to others is a very big one.
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How do you get to reasonably believe that he was an imminent danger to others? Absent more facts that isn't a jump . . . it's a goddam olympic leap.

LukeinNE said:
Based on what we know to this point, I don't think the officer needed to or should've shot him down as he ran, but I think he stands a good chance in court if that's what happened. If Brown turned and tried to surrender as some witnesses are saying, that's another matter.
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I hope the court gets a chance but I'm not sure if it will go that far.
I have a different opinion than you about what a Ferguson, MO jury would probably decide.

 
LukeinNE said:
I mean...just saying it's kind of hard to take complaints about "thugifying" Brown seriously when those same people (weakly) try to tar the police as racists.
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I don't know about tarring police as racists . . . but if you're denying the existence of racial bias in the criminal justice system you probably aren't particularly familiar with the system.
 
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carlfense said:
lo country said:
carlfense said:
lo country said:
I am just saying, the cop deserves a fair trial if it comes to that.
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He sure does and it's a damned shame that he denied Michael Brown the same.
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I am glad that you are privy to the facts and outcome of the investigation. Please post when the non-disclosure statement has expired. Thanks.
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What?
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My statement was because I am unsure what "fair trial" you are speaking of. If justified, as tragic as it was, the shooting was permissible under law. Did the officer fear for his life or believe he was going to be severely injured, then permissible. If not, and it was a cold blooded act you are correct that Michael Brown was not given the right to a fair trial. I will add that if it was murder, even a guilty conviction won't right the wrong.

If that was not your meaning, my apologies. You should know me by now that I am not into trying to be an a$$ on the net.

I enjoy the dialogue at times and the differing opinions.

 
carlfense said:
LukeinNE said:
I mean...just saying it's kind of hard to take complaints about "thugifying" Brown seriously when those same people (weakly) try to tar the police as racists.
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I don't know about tarring police as racists . . . but if you're denying the existence of racial bias in the criminal justice system you probably aren't particularly familiar with the system.
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Yep. And "thugifying" Brown has absolutely nothing to do with that particular officer since he was unaware of the robbery incident, since apparently we have to point that out again. Still, Luke hates all individual accounts of events and we can only talk in broad data points, so if you want I can go back to posting dozens of criminal justice system racial bias scholarly articles and studies if that's what I have to do.

Or, I can post an interesting article. I didn't even post any comment other than a link, yet Luke decided to put words in my mouth. Continuing his work in this thread.

 
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