Why I support Romney

[Mierin]

This idea that I owe anything to anyone else who hasn't made the right choices in life is a crock a sh#t.

I think this is the root of where a lot of people differ. For whatever reason, a disproportionate number of Americans believe in meritocracy, even though in America it's statistically extremely difficult to move up to a higher income bracket. Few people die at a higher income bracket than they were born into. So few people that, in my opinion, there's no way in hell that "working hard" and "making the right choices" is the most important factor. If it were, way more people would inprove their lots in life than actually do. You can't tell me that poor people who never get out of that plight didn't get out of it because they didn't work hard. They started off with shittier living conditions and less educated parents which have been proven to be a big factor in how well they do in school. And then there's the fact that the schools themselves are shittier.

It's bullsh#t that people who need help need help because they made the wrong choices. Obviously that is a factor for some but it's a factor for way less than people think. The situation people are born into is very telling in how they will end up and unfortunately it's worse in the U.S. than in a lot of other democratic countries.

Your assertion that people remain in the same relative place on the economic ladder is demonstrably false. People move up (and down) constantly. (I am not saying some are not in much more difficult circumstances to begin with). People move up from bottom to middle or even the top, and conversely others are moving down throughout the spectrum, based on individual circumstances.........some of which involve opportunity and/or individual initiative and/or luck.

This narrative that we are all "stuck" where we are born is false. Movement throughout social and economic status is always fluid and in flux.

No, it isn't false. Unless you're assuming I think everyone stays in the same bracket. The majority of people stay in the same they're born in. That's a fact. Lately (as in the last ten or so years) it's been more likely for people in the middle class to go down than go up. I'm far too lazy to look up the stats again (my computer crashed a couple months ago and I lost everything I researched on this topic). I realize that looks convenient for me to say, but I'm too lazy to care about that too. I just won't post on it after this.

 

[krc1995]

This idea that I owe anything to anyone else who hasn't made the right choices in life is a crock a sh#t.

I think this is the root of where a lot of people differ. For whatever reason, a disproportionate number of Americans believe in meritocracy, even though in America it's statistically extremely difficult to move up to a higher income bracket. Few people die at a higher income bracket than they were born into. So few people that, in my opinion, there's no way in hell that "working hard" and "making the right choices" is the most important factor. If it were, way more people would inprove their lots in life than actually do. You can't tell me that poor people who never get out of that plight didn't get out of it because they didn't work hard. They started off with shittier living conditions and less educated parents which have been proven to be a big factor in how well they do in school. And then there's the fact that the schools themselves are shittier.

It's bullsh#t that people who need help need help because they made the wrong choices. Obviously that is a factor for some but it's a factor for way less than people think. The situation people are born into is very telling in how they will end up and unfortunately it's worse in the U.S. than in a lot of other democratic countries.

Your assertion that people remain in the same relative place on the economic ladder is demonstrably false. People move up (and down) constantly. (I am not saying some are not in much more difficult circumstances to begin with). People move up from bottom to middle or even the top, and conversely others are moving down throughout the spectrum, based on individual circumstances.........some of which involve opportunity and/or individual initiative and/or luck.

This narrative that we are all "stuck" where we are born is false. Movement throughout social and economic status is always fluid and in flux.

No, it isn't false. Unless you're assuming I think everyone stays in the same bracket. The majority of people stay in the same they're born in. That's a fact. Lately (as in the last ten or so years) it's been more likely for people in the middle class to go down than go up. I'm far too lazy to look up the stats again (my computer crashed a couple months ago and I lost everything I researched on this topic). I realize that looks convenient for me to say, but I'm too lazy to care about that too. I just won't post on it after this.

My daughter's high school no longer recognizes a valedictorian because not everyone could be one. It's the same rationale as redistributing wealth

 

[Mierin]

This idea that I owe anything to anyone else who hasn't made the right choices in life is a crock a sh#t.

I think this is the root of where a lot of people differ. For whatever reason, a disproportionate number of Americans believe in meritocracy, even though in America it's statistically extremely difficult to move up to a higher income bracket. Few people die at a higher income bracket than they were born into. So few people that, in my opinion, there's no way in hell that "working hard" and "making the right choices" is the most important factor. If it were, way more people would inprove their lots in life than actually do. You can't tell me that poor people who never get out of that plight didn't get out of it because they didn't work hard. They started off with shittier living conditions and less educated parents which have been proven to be a big factor in how well they do in school. And then there's the fact that the schools themselves are shittier.

It's bullsh#t that people who need help need help because they made the wrong choices. Obviously that is a factor for some but it's a factor for way less than people think. The situation people are born into is very telling in how they will end up and unfortunately it's worse in the U.S. than in a lot of other democratic countries.

Your assertion that people remain in the same relative place on the economic ladder is demonstrably false. People move up (and down) constantly. (I am not saying some are not in much more difficult circumstances to begin with). People move up from bottom to middle or even the top, and conversely others are moving down throughout the spectrum, based on individual circumstances.........some of which involve opportunity and/or individual initiative and/or luck.

This narrative that we are all "stuck" where we are born is false. Movement throughout social and economic status is always fluid and in flux.

No, it isn't false. Unless you're assuming I think everyone stays in the same bracket. The majority of people stay in the same they're born in. That's a fact. Lately (as in the last ten or so years) it's been more likely for people in the middle class to go down than go up. I'm far too lazy to look up the stats again (my computer crashed a couple months ago and I lost everything I researched on this topic). I realize that looks convenient for me to say, but I'm too lazy to care about that too. I just won't post on it after this.

My daughter's high school no longer recognizes a valedictorian because not everyone could be one. It's the same rationale as redistributing wealth

Having government programs that assist the most disadvantaged in our country isn't even similar to that situation.

 

[krc1995]

the kind of help we offer the disadvantaged is what is keeping them and their children, grandchildren, etc disadvantaged. It does absoluletely no good long term to keep giving things to people and it's extremely disabling. Look to Bill Cosby, he has very good ideas about what should be done for the disadvantaged. And it is the same line of thinking- If I don't want to work hard enough to get the reward, then no one should have it- thinking.

 

[The Dude]

My daughter's high school no longer recognizes a valedictorian because not everyone could be one.

Are you serious?

 

[Mierin]

the kind of help we offer the disadvantaged is what is keeping them and their children, grandchildren, etc disadvantaged. It does absoluletely no good long term to keep giving things to people and it's extremely disabling. Look to Bill Cosby, he has very good ideas about what should be done for the disadvantaged. And it is the same line of thinking- If I don't want to work hard enough to get the reward, then no one should have it- thinking.

I don't think that's true for the majority of people who receive them. I think it's a small minority who take advantage of it. Take food stamps for an example. An individual with no dependents can get at max $2400 (in Nebraska) for food per year and only if they make less than $13,000 a year. I don't think someone would willingly stay at $15,400 (which is the maximum) a year if they could do better. I would think that person would constantly be trying to get out of that situation.

 

[HuskerShark]

the kind of help we offer the disadvantaged is what is keeping them and their children, grandchildren, etc disadvantaged. It does absoluletely no good long term to keep giving things to people and it's extremely disabling. Look to Bill Cosby, he has very good ideas about what should be done for the disadvantaged. And it is the same line of thinking- If I don't want to work hard enough to get the reward, then no one should have it- thinking.

I don't think that's true for the majority of people who receive them. I think it's a small minority who take advantage of it. Take food stamps for an example. An individual with no dependents can get at max $2400 (in Nebraska) for food per year and only if they make less than $13,000 a year. I don't think someone would willingly stay at $15,400 (which is the maximum) a year if they could do better. I would think that person would constantly be trying to get out of that situation.

I'd love to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I really can't based on the things that I've seen. I really have to say that it is not a minority of people that take advantage of welfare, disability, etc. I'll give you a few examples:

-One family from my hometown collected unemployment checks for years. They made zero effort to ever get jobs, and their home was filled with fancy computers and gaming systems, which they spent all of their time on. What a waste of oxygen...

-Another guy who my parents bought a camper from was also on long-term disability and supported his family off of those checks. He claimed to have a back injury. The reason he was selling his camper is because he bought a bigger and better one for his family to use. On top of that, he has an almost new Chevy 3/4 ton pickup, a nice boat, and his wife has a really new and nice Suburban.

That's just a couple examples, and I could pile onto that list. There's a reason that people collecting welfare/unemployment checks get a reputation for abusing it: because they do, and they don't even make an effort to hide it. They feel that they are entitled to collect those checks and go on living their life without making an effort to get a job whatsoever. Most of these people use their government paychecks to purchase drugs and alcohol. I don't feel like that is a generalization, because a very significant number of people in these categories fulfill this rep. I don't have any idea what needs to be done to fix this because there are certain families that do not abuse it and really genuinely need that money to live on, but it really is frustrating to see the abuse of government money happening.