Why no screen passes????

I am I you are missing the point completely. This isn't about Watson, this is about the passing offense that everyone loves to hate. And the irony that while we had screens, we wanted to get rid of them, and now that we don't - we want them back.

I bring up Callahan just because he was GREAT with the screen passes. When Callahan left, he took that expertise (along with his expertise in the OL) with him. Of course it is something that is still available to us if we want it with the current offensive staff, but I am noting that we lost a wizard in terms of the screen passing game, so it isn't a surprise that the screen pass would fall out of prominence or lose effectiveness compared to before. That's one reason I am speculating, on the decline of the screen.

Another reason is personnel and the departure of Lucky, by far the best pass-catching RB we have had in a while. If I recall he was still used in that capacity in 2008, so it could be a combination of this and the reason I said above. And for WR screens I think we run that mostly with Niles, so it could be a reason that is gone, as that was definitely here earlier in the year.

You must not be reading posts with your eyes as you key in on a few terms and get all worked up and defensive about nothing :) I did say I'd like to see screens more. I think reasons they are less prominent this year have mostly to do with personnel, because I'm unsure how Burkhead is in that role, but that's just a complete guess on my part. And the final point to reiterate is that we are passing 30% of the time compared to 60%, so of course we are going to see less of every kind of pass. And this isn't just scaling down our passing offense from before, where we have all the same kinds of plays installed but just run them with half the frequency: going to this offense necessarily reduces the scope of the passing game, particularly with a freshman athlete in at QB that you don't want to fire hose with information. He has to be given what he can handle and there's only room for so much on that plate. Now this is another complete guess but I wonder if that isn't part of the reason too why screens are less now. I'd want to see them more. I think with a back like Green, though, that we would start seeing them again.

Calm the heck down, man :)

 
Asking for a screen pass when it is called for is much different than basing an offense around a screen. In other words, there is a happy middle ground between no screens and a screen every other play.

 
This may just be a personal feeling, but I hate WR screens, bubble screens, etc.

If we are going to run a screen, I prefer it to be a pass to the running back out of the back field.

 
You're right, i am little worked up. I just feel like, as the offense has DIGRESSED over the last couple months, and just to me personally, was always on the verge (playing better defenses, an injury here or there, and not hitting 80yd td homeruns) of not being a very effective offense. We have good players. We have talent. We have some decent depth. What we don't have is a coach putting them in or getting out of them their maximum benefit. And someone starts a thread about how crappy our offense plays or how bad the plays were when playing in a clutch game or against a good defense and these last few months it just seems like you come in defending what 95% of what others see as a problem. And when there is no defense, it's somehow the fanbase just being fickle or ridiculous in their thoughts on the O.

it'd be like, if you started a thread everyday about how yellow the sun is and I, against all other facts, opinion, argumentation, insight, or gut-feeling...i said no, the Sun is green. no, the Sun is green. No, the Sun is green.

of course you're entitled to your opinion as well and can post on any topic just as freely as I can, but when there are topics started I don't necessarily agree with the opinion, often times i'll move along and check back and see what others have to say. I don't incessantly insist on the Sun being green.

I would feel better if just ONCE you would say, "Yes our offense has flaw's. A big part of that is directly attributed to Shawn Watson's direction of the identity of the offense, the obvious inability of our guys to hold onto the ball in critical games, a seeming lack of focus on details like not false starting, and the lack of development of very talented players. I like Watson, but it is conceivable that given his track record in championship games and the statistical lack of production against top 30 defenses that maybe he is not the right guy to lead our offense or really needs to change things in order to maximize our offense."

I won't hold my breath and I won't argue with you anymore either. Peace

 
We have simplified our playbook QUITE a bit, and especially with Taylor in there it is really stripped down because again, you don't want to put more on that freshman's plate than he can handle. It doesn't mean we can't do damage out of it, we can (relying some on Taylor's feet to compensate for the lack of variety in the playbook, though). But it's why some of us have been saying all year that Taylor handcuffs the options we can do on offense. It's a trade off and the explosiveness has mostly been worth it. But recognize that we have to have a simplified offense as a result and it isn't just going to open up magically no matter how big the game.

We saw us try to do quite a bit of interesting stuff this game and against Texas for instance, but again there are limits on how far we can go, IMO. I like the versatility we are showing out of the Rexcat a lot right now though.

I like most screens, just got to treat them as runs, especially the WR screens that are going to get you little or no gain, or a few yards up to 10. It's not some dynamite game-breaking play but a quick option to keep defenses honest, as well as to pick up a few yards to make the next down manageable.

I am I, you can say a lot of bad things about the offense or even the staff and they could be fair, but seriously, the question was asked about why there aren't screens, and I tried to answer that question with a few guesses. I don't see what's so wrong about that. I didn't say I wouldn't rather we have screens, but I'm trying to guess as to why there isn't. I know you're frustrated with the offense but that doesn't mean anything other than criticizing the offense and demanding change is unacceptable...No, I'm not going to bag on the offense in this thread, because I don't think the lack of screens, which is the topic of this thread, is a problem with the staff, as explained.

Since you asked, I'll throw you a bone. Yes, our offense has flaws. Our receivers consistently drop the ball, figuratively and literally (Gilmore). Our OL has been extremely undisciplined over three years, especially with penalties (Cotton). We have good talent at receiver that has not been developed (Gilmore). We need a staff that can be a united front. It might happen or might not happen with Watson, but regardless, the problem is not something that will be fixed by cutting the head off the body and switching another one in there. Watson is not perfect, but I hope that fans realize that they are finding any problem they can with the offense and putting it often a bit blindly on Watson, which is not completely fair, as he is not dictating who is on this staff of his, and that seems (to me at least) to be the big issue.

 
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Zoogies, it has nothing to do with loving screens or hating screens as a general concept of the offense. Every team has screens in the playbook. It's about catering the playcalling strategy to effectively counter what the defense is doing in a specific game. It's called in-game adjustment, and Watson doesn't seem very strong in that area. Screens were certainly the way to go with the type of heat OU was bringing, and yet Wats called one all game. Not acceptable.

 
JTrain said:
Zoogies, it has nothing to do with loving screens or hating screens as a general concept of the offense. Every team has screens in the playbook. It's about catering the playcalling strategy to effectively counter what the defense is doing in a specific game. It's called in-game adjustment, and Watson doesn't seem very strong in that area. Screens were certainly the way to go with the type of heat OU was bringing, and yet Wats called one all game. Not acceptable.
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This

 
When playing against teams with the defensive speed and skill that Boomer had(ie see also Texas) Wats failed to realize the best way to attack those teams is right at them. Yes against Boomer there was some success to the outside, but their defense(much also like ours) loves seeing teams run east/west against them. Think about the teams that ran pretty roughshed on the Blackshirts this year, they went right at the tackles usually doubling Crick and attacking NU's smaller LBs.

This is where I think Wats missed the bus. Against both Boomer and Texas he needed to use their front seven's speed against them. You do this by going right at them(a fullback is helpful, cmon some one +1 me for that reference) and also by using their speed against themselves with a sprinkling of draws, screens and shovel(or shuffle for the morons that think that is what it is called)passes. Remember BJax gashing Texes in the snow on the shovel? Little plays like these here and there last Saturday probably helps the offense and at the same time slows up Boomer's front four from pinning their ears back looking forward to decapitating Taylor(literally did once).

As far as the Callahan theory. For as big of a POS he was as a coach, he was one hell of an OLine coach. Read the article in Sports Illustrated a couple of weeks ago on the Jets and him, it is quite good. Barney has enough trouble teaching the big uglies upfront, I believe trying to teach good screen/shovel blocking would be over the top for the guy.

 
We didn't run many screens this year because Taylor struggles with touch on screen passes. The few we tried were batted down or looked horrible, our playbook was very limited this year.

 
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Zoogies, do you find it odd that you are the only one defending Watson on this entire board..don't worry..we will convert you eventually. Whether its by the end of this season, or the end of next season.

 
jliehr said:
We didn't run many screens this year because Taylor struggles with touch on screen passes. The few we tried were batted down or looked horrible, our playbook was very limited this year.
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Horrible excuse. If you have a QB who cant throw a screen pass, he shouldnt be a QB. It's one of the most basic passing plays in the book. Ive seen Martinez throw with touch. Watch all those long touchdown passes to Kyler Reed

 
seriously, I was the coach of my little brother's pop warner team for a couple years when I was in HS...they were 5th and 6th graders. We ran TWO different kinds of screens. it's pretty simple to execute. but to do it amazingly takes a little bit of savvy. but just to have a couple screens, that's standard

 
I am I said:
seriously, I was the coach of my little brother's pop warner team for a couple years when I was in HS...they were 5th and 6th graders. We ran TWO different kinds of screens. it's pretty simple to execute. but to do it amazingly takes a little bit of savvy. but just to have a couple screens, that's standard
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There is literally a ton of stuff you can run in pop warner that you might find is less easy to do unless extremely well installed, at the D1 level. I mean, really now. The demand for execution and scheme is just not on the same order of magnitude.

wiby_NU said:
jliehr said:
We didn't run many screens this year because Taylor struggles with touch on screen passes. The few we tried were batted down or looked horrible, our playbook was very limited this year.
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Horrible excuse. If you have a QB who cant throw a screen pass, he shouldnt be a QB. It's one of the most basic passing plays in the book. Ive seen Martinez throw with touch. Watch all those long touchdown passes to Kyler Reed
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Thank you for an informed explanation jliehr.

wilby, that and a million other things would be arguments for Taylor not being QB. Can't read defenses, can't do pre-snap reads, no pocket sense, poor mechanics, can't throw on the run, etc, etc, etc. Taylor has all these weaknesses but makes up for it with his threat to take off and run. That is the entire premise of Taylor starting this year and while he has improved in other categories, he is still predictably inconsistent. I hope the light comes on in the offseason because he would be VERY dangerous.

 
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