Wisconsin Post Game Thread

Mavric said:
For 2020, Clemson has #1, #14, #15 and #56 (in the Top 100)

Ohio State has #2, #4 and #66

Georgia has #3 and #60

Texas has #5 (Tim Beck, if you're curious), #34, #39, #48 and #67

LSU has #6, #7, #11, #41 and #74

Notre Dame has #8, #47, #68 and #87

Oklahoma has #9 and #82

Auburn has #10, #37, #38 and #73

Oregon has #12, #42, #59 and #63

Alabama has #13, #21, #24 and #43

Texas A&M has #16, #17, #54, #79 and #92

That's nearly half of the Top 100 on those 11 teams.

But I don't think those recruiter rankings are all that reliable.  It requires 247 to apply the proper guy recruiting a player to each player.  I'm far from convinced that actually gets done correctly and uniformly.  And it's skewed to the teams that have have traditionally recruited well.

For example, Ohio State almost always pulls in a Top 5 class but only has two of the Top 60 recruiters and Larry Johnson doesn't even make the Top 100.  Georgia has the #5 class in the country and only has one inside the Top 60.  Oklahoma has the #10 class and only has one of the Top 80.  

It's just a fluff piece to get clicks, imo.
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Appreciate it @Mavric  I wanted to see how "close" we are with our recruiter rankings to the other teams that are doing well.  

 
Nebfanatic said:
Asks for the facts, ignores them when they don't support his narrative.

Who cares? Clemson and Bama have multiple 5 and 4 star guys a stones throw away. We aren't going to ever be right with them in any of these sort of rankings. What Moos meant we are doing. Bama wanted Robinson and Pola Gates but we got them. Clemson wanted Jimmy Fritze(sp.) We got him.
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Me.  @Mavric showed where other schools that are doing well are at.  It's a way to gauge where we are at in comparisons to where we want to be. Just another metric to look at...........

 
Hayseed said:
I don't have a lot of confidence in these self-appointed rankers anyway. Half of their supposed 4 star players don't pan out and a 10 year old could tell you the team that gets all the highest ranked players will have more options. They just don't seem very useful once you get out of the top ten schools and try to rank ordinary teams.
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Did you mean "rankers" or "wankers"?  Probably the same in many cases. :D

 
Landlord said:
Who?

Well then first of all you should have mentioned that it included non-online perspectives, because your post before made it seem pretty clear that you were basing your idea  specifically on messageboards and twitter, because, you know, that's what you said. And second, getting 'far more' of one answer than the other isn't the same as 90%. 
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There are many good DCs in the Big Ten. Jim Leonhard is great and has consistently delivered a good defense. I am impressed with Minnesotas new DC. Iowas DC is consistently putting a good product on the field. OSUs D looks better than ever but they also have tons of talent. 

Do you not believe the BIG has good defenses or coordinators?

 
Mavric said:
Obviously coaching plays a huge factor as well.  But Wiscy and Iowa have both had their systems in place for a lot longer as well.  Which is why I didn't say that Chin is the answer, only that I'm willing to give him a bit more time to show if he is or not.

The numbers I was referencing were our top 16 current defensive players, which goes down to a rating of .8730.  So a step or two below four-star.  

Iowa would have one LB that meets that on the team right now plus one just a fraction below that.  They also have a likely Top 10 NFL draft pick on the DL which helps make up for any shortcomings of the linebackers as well.  

Wisconsin currently has four guys on their roster that would meet that criteria.

Minnesota's current highest-rated player is a LB who was rated at basically the same level as Wan'Dale.  If we had that kind of impact player on defense, I think we would be better as well.
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Well can you say in place longer.  This is Jim Leonhard’s third season as DC.  Yes the Badgers have been a 3-4 team since Aranda was hired.  But leonhard has instilled his own tweaks and nuances to the defense which differs from Aranda’s and Wilcox’s. 

Halfway through last year Iowa dumped the 4-3 for the 4-2-5.  So from Day 1 through spring ball for years it had been 4-3, now they’re instilling more responsibility, rules, reads, and principles to a nickel package that for years probably got 30 minutes at most during the team practice block perhaps twice a week.

Minnesota cut bait and switched coordinators part way last year.  Again new coordinator equal new philosophies and what nots.  Here they are this year Top 25-30 in most defensive categories.  One LB(yes he is very good) does not make that difference.

Teams have dealt with scheme/coaching changes for years and in so many cases transitioned fairly smoothly WITH the existing talent on their rosters.  Maybe the players responded better when not having to hear their coach say they need more talent on the field. 

Am I saying talent wise things are perfect here?  No.  Are they as bad as some make it out to be??  No.  At the end of last year there was an excitement of who was coming back on both sides of the ball.  Both the coaches and fan base were saying guys have bought in and things were trending upward.  What has happened since then????

 
PaulCrewe said:
Well can you say in place longer.  This is Jim Leonhard’s third season as DC.  Yes the Badgers have been a 3-4 team since Aranda was hired.  But leonhard has instilled his own tweaks and nuances to the defense which differs from Aranda’s and Wilcox’s. 

Halfway through last year Iowa dumped the 4-3 for the 4-2-5.  So from Day 1 through spring ball for years it had been 4-3, now they’re instilling more responsibility, rules, reads, and principles to a nickel package that for years probably got 30 minutes at most during the team practice block perhaps twice a week.

Minnesota cut bait and switched coordinators part way last year.  Again new coordinator equal new philosophies and what nots.  Here they are this year Top 25-30 in most defensive categories.  One LB(yes he is very good) does not make that difference.

Teams have dealt with scheme/coaching changes for years and in so many cases transitioned fairly smoothly WITH the existing talent on their rosters.  Maybe the players responded better when not having to hear their coach say they need more talent on the field. 

Am I saying talent wise things are perfect here?  No.  Are they as bad as some make it out to be??  No.  At the end of last year there was an excitement of who was coming back on both sides of the ball.  Both the coaches and fan base were saying guys have bought in and things were trending upward.  What has happened since then????
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Well stated Paul and I agree our defensive  issues are not just a lack of talent as some make it out to be. Its true better talent always makes coaching look better, but great coaches find a way to maximize results with the talent they have.  We have enough talent to yield better results in both sides of the ball. I believe in Frost in the offensive side of the ball. I just dont have that confidence on the defensive side.

 
huskerfan74 said:
And who do you think you are to simply state it is false without any proof...please stop being arrogant and present proof to the contrary rather than make self righteous statements.
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Problem is I present proof week after week then people seem to forget after the next game and honestly im getting tired. The stats are there and I've posted them over and over again so excuse me for my arrogance but the ignorance is exhausting.

 
HuskerNation1 said:
Well stated Paul and I agree our defensive  issues are not just a lack of talent as some make it out to be. Its true better talent always makes coaching look better, but great coaches find a way to maximize results with the talent they have.  We have enough talent to yield better results in both sides of the ball. I believe in Frost in the offensive side of the ball. I just dont have that confidence on the defensive side.
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Gotta agree with both of you(  @PaulCrewe).  Do I think our O will improve next year?  Yes.  I honestly thought it would be better this year.....This staff, like all others, needs to play with the cards it's been dealt.  Other coaches and teams across the country appear to be doing that and doing it well. It bugs me that we blame Riley for all the woes/culture/lack of talent etc...., But IMHO, the reason the O is struggling is the loss of 4 Riley guys......I'd be tired, as a player, of continually being talked to about culture and lack of buy in/athleticism.  I'll be the first to call out myself for calling out players.....

What is the staff doing to combat this?  Willing to change play calling to "protect" the O and D?  Better manage the RS's.  Use the 4 games to get them experience?  I look at the Wisky game yesterday.  Mills goes beast mode for 188 and only gets 5 touches in the 2nd.  I know we were playing from behind, but 30 minutes is enough time to lean on your bell cow.  Let him do what he had done the first half....Help the LB's so the ILB is not asked to cover a WR or RB across the field.  What has frustrated me forever is the recent OC's Beck/Lang's?Wats would "stop themselves" instead of making the D stop them.  

At the end of the day, I need to remind myself Frost is in year 4 as a HC....Ruud in year 1....Chin in year 4 as DC etc....And I might be wrong, but  would think the B1G is more difficult to navigate than the AAC.  Just gonna take time.

 
Nebfanatic said:
Problem is I present proof week after week then people seem to forget after the next game and honestly im getting tired. The stats are there and I've posted them over and over again so excuse me for my arrogance but the ignorance is exhausting.
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So basically, you have no proof...Wisconsin has had changes in their staff over the past six years and the new head coach and his new assistants have continued the success as if there was no transition, proving that good coaches can be successful in their first year. There are many more examples of first year coaches that brought the right assistants and succeeded in their firs year. So, stating that my comments are false is simply your own naive opinion. Time will tell if I am right or wrong about Dewitt and Chin. I am willing to bet good money that they will not survive past next year.

 
huskerfan74 said:
So basically, you have no proof...Wisconsin has had changes in their staff over the past six years and the new head coach and his new assistants have continued the success as if there was no transition, proving that good coaches can be successful in their first year. There are many more examples of first year coaches that brought the right assistants and succeeded in their firs year. So, stating that my comments are false is simply your own naive opinion. Time will tell if I am right or wrong about Dewitt and Chin. I am willing to bet good money that they will not survive past next year.
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I do have proof im just at work and can't post right now. We are better in nearly every statistical category but I don't have time to track them down. Ill go find an old post of mine and tag you

 
Nebfanatic said:
I do have proof im just at work and can't post right now. We are better in nearly every statistical category but I don't have time to track them down. Ill go find an old post of mine and tag you
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I’ve seen your posts with the stats and appreciate you bringing something to the forum vs just responding  “13-0”.

Now could you, or anyone for that matter, please post last year vs this year CONFERENCE rankings only in these 3 categories Red Zone defense, 3rd down defense and scoring defense

 
huskerfan74 said:
So basically, you have no proof...Wisconsin has had changes in their staff over the past six years and the new head coach and his new assistants have continued the success as if there was no transition, proving that good coaches can be successful in their first year. There are many more examples of first year coaches that brought the right assistants and succeeded in their firs year. So, stating that my comments are false is simply your own naive opinion. Time will tell if I am right or wrong about Dewitt and Chin. I am willing to bet good money that they will not survive past next year.
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To his credit he has posted stats, and overall defense wise we are slightly better in total defense and scoring defense, but we're still not very good compared to the rest of the country. What I wanted to look at is how our defense has preformed in B1G play this year to last year. Nice apples to apples comparison - and were gonna need to see if Chin is any closer to figuring out B1G offenses. 

Scoring Defense 

Current : 33.7

Last : 34.3

Total Defense

Current : 429

Last: 466

Defense Yards per Play

Current: 6.2

Last: 6.1

Rush Defense

Current: 233.9

Last: 224.6

Pass Defense:

Current: 195

Last: 242

Defense Pass Eff

Current: 134.8

Last: 118.7

3rd Down D

Current: 46.2%

Last: 45.4%

Turnovers Gained:

Current: 6 in 7 games

Last: 15 in 9 games

Redzone D:

Current: 94% (woof)

Last: 84%

In B1G play you could not say we are any better on defense than we were last season. Actually a lot of stats show regression. Regardless of progress, these are bottom of the barrel stats both seasons - and if we continue to play like this against B1G teams we will be lucky to make a bowl game.

 
FrantzHardySwag said:
To his credit he has posted stats, and overall defense wise we are slightly better in total defense and scoring defense, but we're still not very good compared to the rest of the country. What I wanted to look at is how our defense has preformed in B1G play this year to last year. Nice apples to apples comparison - and were gonna need to see if Chin is any closer to figuring out B1G offenses. 

Scoring Defense 

Current : 33.7

Last : 34.3

Total Defense

Current : 429

Last: 466

Defense Yards per Play

Current: 6.2

Last: 6.1

Rush Defense

Current: 233.9

Last: 224.6

Pass Defense:

Current: 195

Last: 242

Defense Pass Eff

Current: 134.8

Last: 118.7

3rd Down D

Current: 46.2%

Last: 45.4%

Turnovers Gained:

Current: 6 in 7 games

Last: 15 in 9 games

Redzone D:

Current: 94% (woof)

Last: 84%

In B1G play you could not say we are any better on defense than we were last season. Actually a lot of stats show regression. Regardless of progress, these are bottom of the barrel stats both seasons - and if we continue to play like this against B1G teams we will be lucky to make a bowl game.
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I greatly appreciate this post. Would be nice to see the 2017 numbers for comparison. @PaulCrewe this is probably similar to the information you were looking for. As you have said it is marginal improvment from really bad to still really bad. But with that said it is a cut above 2017, and that is where we are scratching and clawing from. We have clear talent deficiencies from attrition and that really hurts too.

This is why people defend Chinander. I think most defending him think he was given a situation that can't be fixed this early in his tenure here. Most of us I think feel similarly to @Mavric about the issue. Is Chinander the answer? I really don't know but I really also don't think he can be fairly judged on these two seasons or even his 2 seasons at UCF. The sample size is too small.

That is obviously a major concern in itself, but I feel like firing him at this juncture and trying to find a 4th DC in 5 years is more of a risk than letting him have next year to show what he can do. And lets be honest, he isn't getting fired anyway. 

But its fluid, what is good enough this year will not be good enough next year. Significant improvment will be expected as excuses begin to become irrelevant next season. We can't just be better than 2017, we need to get to at least the middle of the pack next season. I think the staff understands this. 

I'm just tired of the bad faith arguments about Chinander, specifically the idea that if Frost doesn't fire him after this season Frost will be a failure here, next season will be a disaster ect ect. Honestly I think Frost will make a decision to fire Chinander without hesitation if he needs to, but right now is too early for all of that and Chinander is not that much of a disaster at DC. Recruiting alone has been good enough to keep him at least 1 more year. We are bringing in dudes on defense. 

 
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