Mierin
Donor
Yes, he does have a compelling argument. Does Suh not have a compelling argument as the greatest DT in school history? He won no championships.
Man I forgot how good Taylor's wheels were
- Thread starter ZRod
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desertshox
New member
from another post in this thread, apparently only qbs are judged on the championships.
RockyMountainOySker
New member
A lone DT doesn't win championships but the greatest QB in the history better eff'n do so. How is it possible you are trying to compare the two? You've got to be joking right?!?!
desertshox
New member
because championships are team efforts and qb is just one position on the team as is dt.
Landlord
Banned
Because Ndamukong Suh is unmatched in his physical prowess, athletic ability and dominance on the football field. He is that much better than the competitors.
Taylor Martinez isn't. There have been quarterbacks that can run essentially as fast as him, throw as well if not better than him, etc. Whereas Suh is heads and shoulders above any challenger just from his play on the field, Taylor isn't, and needs more of a resume (championships) to actually enter into the conversation.
Actually think about it instead of focusing on trying to prove me wrong and you'll get it.
desertshox
New member
teachercd
Active member
RockyMountainOySker
New member
Just for arguments sake (and since your entire stance seems to be on Taylor's stats), let's take a look Suh's and Taylor's stats in championship games.
Ndumakong Suh
Big 12 championship - 12 tackles, 7 tackles for loss, 4.5 sacks.
Taylor Martinez
Big 12 championship - 12 of 24, 143 yards, 0 TDs, 1 incerception, - 32 rushing yards (that's negative), 0 TDs, 1 fumble (3 other fumbles recovered by Neb)
Big 10 Championship - 17 of 33, 184 yards, 0 TDs, 2 interceptions, 140 rushing yards, 2 TDs, 1 fumble (1 other fumble recovered by Neb)
Notice a difference? One had one of the greatest games statistically from his position ever.
For the record, I like Taylor and think he's a heck of a QB. But, to announce him as the greatest QB in Nebraska history is ludicrous.
Ndumakong Suh
Big 12 championship - 12 tackles, 7 tackles for loss, 4.5 sacks.
Taylor Martinez
Big 12 championship - 12 of 24, 143 yards, 0 TDs, 1 incerception, - 32 rushing yards (that's negative), 0 TDs, 1 fumble (3 other fumbles recovered by Neb)
Big 10 Championship - 17 of 33, 184 yards, 0 TDs, 2 interceptions, 140 rushing yards, 2 TDs, 1 fumble (1 other fumble recovered by Neb)
Notice a difference? One had one of the greatest games statistically from his position ever.
For the record, I like Taylor and think he's a heck of a QB. But, to announce him as the greatest QB in Nebraska history is ludicrous.
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Mierin
Donor
No QB can win a championship on his own. Tommie Frazier would not have won a championship with the defense we had last year. IIRC, Wisconsin's offense scored 63 points on us and their defense scored 7.
I'm not arguing that Martinez is the best QB in school history or will be (without a championship). I'm arguing that there is definitely a valid argument that he is and will be even if he doesn't win one. I think Frazier is our best QB, but he wasn't as fast as Martinez and didn't throw as well. This isn't about how Taylor compares to his competition. It's how he compares to Nebraska's previous quarterbacks. Frazier wasn't head and shoulders above Ward/Stewart, imo, and Martinez isn't head and shoulders above Miller/Robinson.
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Landlord
Banned
By competition, I meant other quarterbacks in Nebraska history. The other players competing for the honor of best. Not against other teams :hmmph
Mierin
Donor
Gotcha, heh. But I think all that means is that there isn't an argument for anyone besides Suh to be our best DT. Since Martinez/Crouch/Frazier and throw in a couple others too definitely all have compelling arguments, imho. Frazier definitely wins in the motivation/leadership category and his winning championships shows that so he has a big advantage there. But it's not everything.
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knapplc
Active member
A lone Defensive Tackle doesn't win championships. I'm cool with that.
How does a lone QB win championships? Does he not have to have a RB threat to take eyes off him (presuming he's a running QB). Does he not have to have at the very least good WRs to catch the passes he throws? How can a QB win a championship by himself but a Defensive Tackle can't?
And before we go throwing Suh out there as the unrivaled pinnacle of Defensive Tackles, let's take a look at how Jason Peter took over games. Or Rich Glover. Suh was utterly great, but we've had other utterly great DTs here. He's not alone, and he may not even be the best DT we've ever had.
Martinez is already #1 statistically in Nebraska history (for QBs).
How does a lone QB win championships? Does he not have to have a RB threat to take eyes off him (presuming he's a running QB). Does he not have to have at the very least good WRs to catch the passes he throws? How can a QB win a championship by himself but a Defensive Tackle can't?
And before we go throwing Suh out there as the unrivaled pinnacle of Defensive Tackles, let's take a look at how Jason Peter took over games. Or Rich Glover. Suh was utterly great, but we've had other utterly great DTs here. He's not alone, and he may not even be the best DT we've ever had.
Martinez is already #1 statistically in Nebraska history (for QBs).
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Mierin
Donor
I honestly haven't really thought about it, heh. There are way too many factors involved. I don't know how much worse his OL is compared to Frazier's/Crouch's. I don't know whether he'll quit fumbling this season. He doesn't have Lawrence Phillips and Ahman Green. *shrug* But I highly doubt I will ever think of him as better than Frazier unless something shocking happens this season. IF he cuts down the turnovers and everything else stays the same, then I think he will have a very good argument for #1/#2.
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