My QB mis-analysis

[The Dude]

Yeah, I understand what you said, I simply explained why it's a flawed premise.

Also, it would behoove you to strive to be more excellent to other forum members.

 

[Joe_5700]

Umm.....


http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kessel_Run

Yes? Here's what I took from that:

A parsec is a unit of distance, not time

Who bad-mouths a Star Wars quote? And a quote that was meant to be funny. Honestly.

Perhaps this famous race had a time limit and Han was able to travel 12 parsecs within the given time? Solved.

 

[Mierin]

To recap my position, because you are as dense as a rock on this issue.
Using your interpretation skills, you would stick with a QB throwing 50% and constantly fumbling because the backup might do the same?

Can we ban this guy? He annoys me.

 

[papersun87]

Umm.....


http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kessel_Run

Yes? Here's what I took from that:

A parsec is a unit of distance, not time

Who bad-mouths a Star Wars quote? And a quote that was meant to be funny. Honestly.

Perhaps this famous race had a time limit and Han was able to travel 12 parsecs within the given time? Solved.

I never understood the issue. The Kessel Run is normally [x] parsecs. Han found a way to get from Point A to Point B in twelve.

 

[NUpolo8]

Umm.....

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kessel_Run

Yes? Here's what I took from that:

A parsec is a unit of distance, not time

Who bad-mouths a Star Wars quote? And a quote that was meant to be funny. Honestly.

Perhaps this famous race had a time limit and Han was able to travel 12 parsecs within the given time? Solved.

I never understood the issue. The Kessel Run is normally [x] parsecs. Han found a way to get from Point A to Point B in twelve.

HE still had time to shoot first too.

(Blatant Star Wars troll post)

 

[The Dude]

Using your interpretation skills, you would stick with a QB throwing 50% and constantly fumbling because the backup might do the same?

Sorry, I didn't answer your question. Honestly, after the last 6 years I'm pretty desensitized to anyone on this team fumbling. I most definitely don't believe it's a problem exclusive to Armstrong. Throwing 50% is obviously not ideal, but it's certainly not the deciding factor of who gets to play and who doesn't. Who gives the team the best chance to win is the deciding factor. All signs seem to indicate that the coaches and team think Armstrong is that guy.

He threw under 50% in the bowl game, but overall I thought he played as well or better than Martinez ever did in any postseason game. He showed a lot of poise for a freshman. He didn't try to win the game on his own on every play, which is what I think his biggest downfall was throughout the season - not too surprising for a freshman. He threw some clutch passes which were the difference between our first postseason victory since 2009 and just another postseason loss. He threw the longest touchdown pass in the history of the game. Most importantly, I thought he managed the offense well and helped keep us on schedule. So overall, I think he has shown improvement, maybe not enough to meet your standards of "deserving" the starting spot, but he has improved.

Now, if it was true that all he did was throw 50% and fumble, then you would have a point worth examining, but when you base an argument on hyperbole it's difficult to take it seriously. Especially when you're already calling to replace him with a guy that was 3rd string as of the spring game.

 

[suh_fan93]

I am not excited about Armstrong as our QB in any way shape or form. Bo has tunnel vision so we are more or less stuck with him unless he gets injured. Kellogg should have seen the field tons more than he ended up seeing last season. Nothing shocking there.

I'm team Stanton and the guy hasn't even taken a snap yet. That's how unimpressed I am with Tommy Armstrong so far anyway.

You and I watched a different team last year.

Ron Kellogg and Tommy Armstrong were alternated equally as Bo made up his mind, so I'm guessing your leap to "tunnel vision" is a leftover from a Taylor Martinez issue.

It became apparent to Bo and Beck, as it was to the rest of us, that Freshman Tommy had a bigger upside than Senior Kellogg, so Tommy started getting a majority of the snaps.

When Tommy was hurt, Kellogg was handed the final regular season game, Senior Day at Home against Iowa. At which point Ron Kellogg, a perfectly nice, hardworking young man, showed why he was better off as a back-up.

I disagree with pretty much everything you said but respectfully so. I guess I didn't see Tommy's 'upside' as being so apparent that Kellogg a guy who completed nearly 60% of his passes his Senior year not to mention ending up with a QB rating of 127.6 should have come off the bench. Tommy's consistent interceptions were enough to seal the deal for me. Coming out and throwing a pick and nearly throwing a second one in the spring game against our own backups didn't do much coming into this season for his apparent 'upside' that you apparently see either. We watched the same team...

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I am not excited about Armstrong as our QB in any way shape or form. Bo has tunnel vision so we are more or less stuck with him unless he gets injured. Kellogg should have seen the field tons more than he ended up seeing last season. Nothing shocking there.

I'm team Stanton and the guy hasn't even taken a snap yet. That's how unimpressed I am with Tommy Armstrong so far anyway.

You and I watched a different team last year.

Ron Kellogg and Tommy Armstrong were alternated equally as Bo made up his mind, so I'm guessing your leap to "tunnel vision" is a leftover from a Taylor Martinez issue.

It became apparent to Bo and Beck, as it was to the rest of us, that Freshman Tommy had a bigger upside than Senior Kellogg, so Tommy started getting a majority of the snaps.

When Tommy was hurt, Kellogg was handed the final regular season game, Senior Day at Home against Iowa. At which point Ron Kellogg, a perfectly nice, hardworking young man, showed why he was better off as a back-up.

I disagree with pretty much everything you said but respectfully so. I guess I didn't see Tommy's 'upside' as being so apparent that Kellogg a guy who completed nearly 60% of his passes his Senior year not to mention ending up with a QB rating of 127.6 should have come off the bench. Tommy's consistent interceptions were enough to seal the deal for me. Coming out and throwing a pick and nearly throwing a second one in the spring game against our own backups didn't do much for his apparent 'upside' that you apparently see either. We watched the same team...

You expect statistics to seal your argument. It's not that simple. If stats tell all you'd have to find room for Armstrong having three more touchdowns in less attempts than Kellogg, and note Kellogg's less than inspiring minus 2.3 yards per carry, often going down meekly cause he simply wasn't mobile. You'd also want to explain Armstong's seven wins, including breaking Michigan's long win streak at The Big House and helping beat a decent SEC team in a bowl game. Then compare Armstrong's single loss - to MSU - with Kellogg's performance against a much lower ranked Iowa.

I'm still stuck on the intangibles. By the time it came to the Georgia game, with a disenheartening season on the line, I can't imagine any coach going with Kellogg over Armstrong.

Bo didn't. We won. Ending a chaotic, screwed up, injury-riddled 9 - 4 season. If Armstrong is any better, and has the respect of teammates and fans, it's hard not to see the upside for Nebraska this year.

I respectfully disagree with your disagreeing with me. I can only take comfort that I got 4 plusses to your 1plus.

 

[suh_fan93]

I am not excited about Armstrong as our QB in any way shape or form. Bo has tunnel vision so we are more or less stuck with him unless he gets injured. Kellogg should have seen the field tons more than he ended up seeing last season. Nothing shocking there.

I'm team Stanton and the guy hasn't even taken a snap yet. That's how unimpressed I am with Tommy Armstrong so far anyway.

You and I watched a different team last year.

Ron Kellogg and Tommy Armstrong were alternated equally as Bo made up his mind, so I'm guessing your leap to "tunnel vision" is a leftover from a Taylor Martinez issue.

It became apparent to Bo and Beck, as it was to the rest of us, that Freshman Tommy had a bigger upside than Senior Kellogg, so Tommy started getting a majority of the snaps.

When Tommy was hurt, Kellogg was handed the final regular season game, Senior Day at Home against Iowa. At which point Ron Kellogg, a perfectly nice, hardworking young man, showed why he was better off as a back-up.

I disagree with pretty much everything you said but respectfully so. I guess I didn't see Tommy's 'upside' as being so apparent that Kellogg a guy who completed nearly 60% of his passes his Senior year not to mention ending up with a QB rating of 127.6 should have come off the bench. Tommy's consistent interceptions were enough to seal the deal for me. Coming out and throwing a pick and nearly throwing a second one in the spring game against our own backups didn't do much for his apparent 'upside' that you apparently see either. We watched the same team...

You expect statistics to seal your argument. It's not that simple. If stats tell all you'd have to find room for Armstrong having three more touchdowns in less attempts than Kellogg, and note Kellogg's less than inspiring minus 2.3 yards per carry, often going down meekly cause he simply wasn't mobile. You'd also want to explain Armstong's seven wins, including breaking Michigan's long win streak at The Big House and helping beat a decent SEC team in a bowl game. Then compare Armstrong's single loss - to MSU - with Kellogg's performance against a much lower ranked Iowa.

I'm still stuck on the intangibles. By the time it came to the Georgia game, with a disenheartening season on the line, I can't imagine any coach going with Kellogg over Armstrong.

Bo didn't. We won. Ending a chaotic, screwed up, injury-riddled 9 - 4 season. If Armstrong is any better, and has the respect of teammates and fans, it's hard not to see the upside for Nebraska this year.

I respectfully disagree with your disagreeing with me. I can only take comfort that I got 4 plusses to your 1plus.

Hey it's a good discussion and I appreciate the stats you listed. If Armstrong can somehow turn down the picks it's not like I won't be rooting for the kid. I still can't wait to see Stanton. Something tells me we're going to like what we see. I think it's fair to say we need to see an improved Armstrong. He threw the ball away far too much last year. He has to improve there. It's going to be an interesting season in so many ways.

 

[lo country]

Beck. It comes down to Beck. Call a game plan that your QB can handle. In the rain, snow, wind, heat, 8 in the box etc..... We recruited the guy based on his HS film. He started because of what the staff saw in practice. Call those plays. If TA continually over throws the slant, crap can it. Can't do it in practice, WON'T do it in a game. So we lose the slant route. Better than an INT on our own 20 yrs line. The 99 yrs record breaker came off of PA. Great call, great pass. See what TA can do and turn him loose. Too many times it seems beck wants to put the square in the round hole. This year, if he puts the square in the square, TA has the possibility to amaze IMO.

Last year, IIRC, Beck made the comment they were trying to many plays in practice. Duh. If you want to be multiple, pull a TO or Malzahn and run a limited set of plays from multiple formations. That way, the receivers, regardless of formation will end up in the same spot. Helps TA, confuses D.

 

[Chaddyboxer]

The Dude is on a mean streak of solid posts in this thread. Just thought I'd point that out.

 

[Branno]

Using your interpretation skills, you would stick with a QB throwing 50% and constantly fumbling because the backup might do the same?

Sorry, I didn't answer your question. Honestly, after the last 6 years I'm pretty desensitized to anyone on this team fumbling. I most definitely don't believe it's a problem exclusive to Armstrong. Throwing 50% is obviously not ideal, but it's certainly not the deciding factor of who gets to play and who doesn't. Who gives the team the best chance to win is the deciding factor. All signs seem to indicate that the coaches and team think Armstrong is that guy.
He threw under 50% in the bowl game, but overall I thought he played as well or better than Martinez ever did in any postseason game. He showed a lot of poise for a freshman. He didn't try to win the game on his own on every play, which is what I think his biggest downfall was throughout the season - not too surprising for a freshman. He threw some clutch passes which were the difference between our first postseason victory since 2009 and just another postseason loss. He threw the longest touchdown pass in the history of the game. Most importantly, I thought he managed the offense well and helped keep us on schedule. So overall, I think he has shown improvement, maybe not enough to meet your standards of "deserving" the starting spot, but he has improved.

Now, if it was true that all he did was throw 50% and fumble, then you would have a point worth examining, but when you base an argument on hyperbole it's difficult to take it seriously. Especially when you're already calling to replace him with a guy that was 3rd string as of the spring game.

How is saying that he should be replaced if he shows no improvement from a lackluster freshman year even remotely the same as calling for him to be replaced now?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

And if you want me to treat you better, don't act like Polo and put words in my mouth to set up a straw man.

I want us to win. I want Armstrong to surprise me like Martinez when it comes to showing improvement. All I am saying is if he doesn't, then give the next guy a shot.

 

[HUSKER FREAK]

So my estimation, without looking up stats, of 10-15 passes per game? Pretty right on target. I never implied that in 1995, the team NEVER passed more than 15 times a game. I talked about a per game estimate.

Well I was talking about '92 and '98, because those were the Freshman seasons in question. But vintage Nebraska FREQUENTLY passed more than 15 times a game, which is a lot more than never.

No question that we pass more than we used to. No question that we remain a run first team with a 2:1 ratio. Armstrong already has a better completion % than Frazier or Crouch. Bump that up five points, trim a few turnovers and we're in business. That's not too much to expect in a Sophomore season free of last year's chaos and injuries.

Tommy Armstrong had every reason to be intimidated last year, but he never look flustered. I'll take that. Just like I'll take fumbling at your own one yard line and then cooly completing a 99 yard pass with your heel at the back of the end zone.

(honestly, I could live without the fumbling part)

Great post. I expect a huge jump this season. Can't wait to see it.

I especially like this part about Tommy. I think his cool calm demeanor will do wonders for him as he grows in the offense. I think he will be fine.

 

[Junior]

So my estimation, without looking up stats, of 10-15 passes per game? Pretty right on target. I never implied that in 1995, the team NEVER passed more than 15 times a game. I talked about a per game estimate.

Well I was talking about '92 and '98, because those were the Freshman seasons in question. But vintage Nebraska FREQUENTLY passed more than 15 times a game, which is a lot more than never.

No question that we pass more than we used to. No question that we remain a run first team with a 2:1 ratio. Armstrong already has a better completion % than Frazier or Crouch. Bump that up five points, trim a few turnovers and we're in business. That's not too much to expect in a Sophomore season free of last year's chaos and injuries.

Tommy Armstrong had every reason to be intimidated last year, but he never look flustered. I'll take that. Just like I'll take fumbling at your own one yard line and then cooly completing a 99 yard pass with your heel at the back of the end zone.

(honestly, I could live without the fumbling part)

Sure, at times "vintage" Nebraska passed more than 15 times in a game. That's why I talked about average passes per game.

Armstrong might be a better thrower than Crouch or Frazier, it's not a high bar to pass. But that's not the point either. If you are comparing him as a passer to those guys, it's not comforting to know that he's right in the same ballpark. Because those guys never got much better as passers. They didn't need to. But we all know Beck craves throwing the ball around. It's why he tried to turn Martinez into a drop back passer. A more apt comparison would be the freshman years of Martinez or Todd Reesing. Because those Beck's offenses (he was passing game coordinator at Kansas).

For all the grief he takes, as a Freshman, Martinez completed 59% of his passes. As a Senior, Frazier completed 55%.

So again, unless we are going back to the very run heavy, option oriented offense of the 90s.... I don't like the comparison of Armstrong with Frazier and Crouch. (And if we are doing that, we should start comparing rushing stats)

 

[RedRedJarvisRedwine]

bump. a lot of good numbers being thrown out to go along with the discussion in the TA thread. wonder if we could merge the two threads and rename it now that we seem to have some qb drama