Racism - It's a real thing.

Nebfanatic said:
Looks to me like you are the one not willing to change your mind. No one is calling you racist. All that is being said is there is a problem that needs to be acknowledged and addressed. Your own article acknowledges racism exists in law enforcement, why can't you? 
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Actually the article states racism exists everywhere so....

 
teachercd said:
I will chime in here and stick up for him even though he doesn't need my help.  Why can't he?  Because he feels like your mind is made up and that you are attacking him.  I don't blame him.  I don't think you are attacking him but I can see why he would feel that way.  He is probably a good cop and does a good job and treats people fairly...but that isn't really what you want to hear.  You want him to tell you why cops are "bad" but his answer is the same as my answer.  Because some people are a$$h@!es.

I can't name one line of work that doesn't have racists and bigots and homophobes and a$$h@!es and dicks and b!^@hes...Not one.

I don't know what line of work you are in BUT I would be willing to bet that your line of work has as many if not more racists, bigots sexists and a$$h@!es in it than his does.

The difference is, his profession results in tickets and arrests and sometimes shootings.  Yours involves "certain people" not getting hired or promoted or a raise.  Or certain people getting laid off first or harassed at work.

So, does racism exist in your line of work?  My guess is that you will say you have never "seen" it and that is fair, you probably never have.  I bet he has never seen it either, except on videos that make the news.  

I have seen it in my profession.  
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Racism certainly exists in my line of work. But you are right in that their is a difference between my line of work and law enforcement. Law enforcement has power to affect peoples lives more than almost any other profession. That's why racial bias in law enforcement is such a big issue, because it effects people in a big way. That's not to say there isn't discrimination in every other aspect of our society. There certainly is. What gets me is his failure to acknowledge its existence. He can do the best job in the world, that doesn't mean the system he performs that job in is perfect or free of racial bias.

Edit: I'd say housing discrimination is a close second as far as effect on peoples lives. Never did I say racism was confined to law enforcement or that is the only issue to worry about. 

BIGREDIOWAN said:
Actually the article states racism exists everywhere so....
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So you admit racism exists within law enforcement then

 
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Nebfanatic said:
Racism certainly exists in my line of work. But you are right in that their is a difference between my line of work and law enforcement. Law enforcement has power to affect peoples lives more than almost any other profession. That's why racial bias in law enforcement is such a big issue, because it effects people in a big way. That's not to say there isn't discrimination in every other aspect of our society. There certainly is. What gets me is his failure to acknowledge its existence. He can do the best job in the world, that doesn't mean the system he performs that job in is perfect or free of racial bias.

So you admit racism exists within law enforcement then
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So my question to you is...if you know racism exists in your line of work, what are you doing about it?  Why are you not sending out petitions at your work to wake up the work force and change their ways?  Why are you not quitting your job unless changes are made?  How come you don't call the local news and explain the issues of racism at your work in your industry?  Or do you do all of that?

I know why I don't do it...because I am a sissy and I want to keep my job.

 
Nebfanatic said:
Racism certainly exists in my line of work. But you are right in that their is a difference between my line of work and law enforcement. Law enforcement has power to affect peoples lives more than almost any other profession. That's why racial bias in law enforcement is such a big issue, because it effects people in a big way. That's not to say there isn't discrimination in every other aspect of our society. There certainly is. What gets me is his failure to acknowledge its existence. He can do the best job in the world, that doesn't mean the system he performs that job in is perfect or free of racial bias.

Edit: I'd say housing discrimination is a close second as far as effect on peoples lives. Never did I say racism was confined to law enforcement or that is the only issue to worry about. 

So you admit racism exists within law enforcement then
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Nope, because you're trying to stick it just to law enforcement and that's supposed to be wayyyy worse than racism just existing. Are you willing to admit that you yourself are racist on some level? 

 
teachercd said:
So my question to you is...if you know racism exists in your line of work, what are you doing about it?  Why are you not sending out petitions at your work to wake up the work force and change their ways?  Why are you not quitting your job unless changes are made?  How come you don't call the local news and explain the issues of racism at your work in your industry?  Or do you do all of that?

I know why I don't do it...because I am a sissy and I want to keep my job.
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Just because it exists in my line of work doesn't mean it exists where I work lol currently I'm a server at a African American owned restaurant. I've worked at restaurants where every single employee was white, and that's in south MS. Definitely something there but what can you really say? You aren't hiring any African Americans and that is racist may be true but can easily be combatted with a bevy of excuses. That doesn't mean nothing should be done but honestly I don't have the power or the knowledge right now. I do what I can to help by attending events and listening to others point of view but I am too ignorant to be a leader on this issue at the moment. I dont know the way forward I just want to help and be as informed as possible.

 
BIGREDIOWAN said:
Nope, because you're trying to stick it just to law enforcement and that's supposed to be wayyyy worse than racism just existing. Are you willing to admit that you yourself are racist on some level? 
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No I'm not. I'm acknowledging the issue at hand and the gravity of said issue. Law enforcement having racial bias is worse than most other areas of our society having racial bias because of the power law enforcement wields. And yes, I am willing to admit that I have racial bias. You'd be lying if you said you didn't have racial bias. But I take the time to learn and listen to others experiences and that has done alot to reduce my ignorance 

 
Nebfanatic said:
Just because it exists in my line of work doesn't mean it exists where I work lol currently I'm a server at a African American owned restaurant. I've worked at restaurants where every single employee was white, and that's in south MS. Definitely something there but what can you really say? You aren't hiring any African Americans and that is racist may be true but can easily be combatted with a bevy of excuses. That doesn't mean nothing should be done but honestly I don't have the power or the knowledge right now. I do what I can to help by attending events and listening to others point of view but I am too ignorant to be a leader on this issue at the moment. I dont know the way forward I just want to help and be as informed as possible.
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Honestly, I don't think you say or do anything...I want to keep my job!

 
Seems like neither side wants to have an honest discussion here. 

There are very obviously issue with law enforcement and how they treat the African American population. To deny that is to deny history, data, and reality. At the same time it's pretty obvious that not all cops are bad, and most are respectable people. With a little more thought it's also clear that even good cops can fall victim to stereotypes and generalizations that put them in to bad situations. Your training literally teaches you to be "fearful" and judge people by their appearance to protect yourself and the community. You probably police based on statistics, but those statistics become a self fulfilling prophecy when you constantly go after the same areas again and again.

 
ZRod said:
Seems like neither side wants to have an honest discussion here. 

There are very obviously issue with law enforcement and how they treat the African American population. To deny that is to deny history, data, and reality. At the same time it's pretty obvious that not all cops are bad, and most are respectable people. With a little more thought it's also clear that even good cops can fall victim to stereotypes and generalizations that put them in to bad situations. Your training literally teaches you to be "fearful" and judge people by their appearance to protect yourself and the community. You probably police based on statistics, but those statistics become a self fulfilling prophecy when you constantly go after the same areas again and again.
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I don't think I've been arguing anything other than what you just stated. There is obviously an issue. That doesn't mean cops are racist pigs. All it means is there is an issue that should be acknowledged and addressed. This goes for any part of society that racism effects, but law enforcement is such a hot button issue because peoples lives are at stake in a very literal sense. 

 
ZRod said:
Seems like neither side wants to have an honest discussion here. 

There are very obviously issue with law enforcement and how they treat the African American population. To deny that is to deny history, data, and reality. At the same time it's pretty obvious that not all cops are bad, and most are respectable people. With a little more thought it's also clear that even good cops can fall victim to stereotypes and generalizations that put them in to bad situations. Your training literally teaches you to be "fearful" and judge people by their appearance to protect yourself and the community. You probably police based on statistics, but those statistics become a self fulfilling prophecy when you constantly go after the same areas again and again.
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Sure, but that is every line of work.  To deny that is to deny...well...reality. 

 
ZRod said:
Seems like neither side wants to have an honest discussion here. 
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Who's being dishonest?

@BIGREDIOWAN is agreeing that there can be racial biases among LEOs, but is saying painting all cops as racist is insulting.

@Nebfanatic is saying that statistically, there are biases in police stops/arrests/shootings, and that racism exists everywhere.

I don't think either is being dishonest. I think they're talking past each other quite a bit but I don't see that as coming from a dishonest position from either of them.

 
knapplc said:
Who's being dishonest?

@BIGREDIOWAN is agreeing that there can be racial biases among LEOs, but is saying painting all cops as racist is insulting.

@Nebfanatic is saying that statistically, there are biases in police stops/arrests/shootings, and that racism exists everywhere.

I don't think either is being dishonest. I think they're talking past each other quite a bit but I don't see that as coming from a dishonest position from either of them.
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Statistics back up my point but there is more to it than that for me. I grew up in Nebraska but have lived in the south for a few years now and it's safe to say I have learned alot. I have alot to learn but what I have learned is this. We are a long, long, long way from equality in our country.

Not less than 100 years ago black men in Mississippi  could  and would be charged and convicted of crimes committed by white men. Black men could be killed by white men with no repercussions. Laws were created specifically to target people of color and break apart their families, just like in the days of the slave trade when they would sell family members to the furthest corners of the map away from each other.

People want the  African American community to clean up their act and have better family units and communities when the system has been tearing these things apart on purpose since they have been in this country. And it has happened on multiple levels.

So I have a problem when people aren't willing to admit that their is indeed discrimination within the system. No one is saying anything about individuals. The fact that comes up irks me a bit. Nowhere have I called anyone a racist and to take that from what I am saying is a bit ridiculous. There is a problem and the you can only fix a problem if you acknowledge it exists. 

 
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Nebfanatic said:
Statistics back up my point but there is more to it than that for me. I grew up in Nebraska but have lived in the south for a few years now and it's safe to say I have learned alot. I have alot to learn but what I have learned is this. We are a long, long, long way from equality in our country.

Not less than 100 years ago black men in Mississippi  could  and would be charged and convicted of crimes committed by white men. Black men could be killed by white men with no repercussions. Laws were created specifically to target people of color and break apart their families, just like in the days of the slave trade when they would sell family members to the furthest corners of the map away from each other.

People want the  African American community to clean up their act and have better family units and communities when the system has been tearing these things apart on purpose since they have been in this country. And it has happened on multiple levels.

So I have a problem when people aren't willing to admit that their is indeed discrimination within the system. No one is saying anything about individuals. The fact that comes up irks me a bit. Nowhere have I called anyone a racist and to take that from what I am saying is a bit ridiculous. There is a problem and the you can only fix a problem if you acknowledge it exists. 
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My argument has and always will be that since I'm a police officer and the "system" is racist I automatically get labeled with a broad brush as part of the problem and a racist. It irks me equally as much that I get painted with that broad term and I'll fight like hell to argue against that.

I've seen several of my African-American brothers in blue be called "Uncle Tom" and a "trader" all because they chose to do something with their lives and not let the "system" beat them. So who's the racist in that situation? And we're talking about guys and gals that grew up in bad areas as well and made a choice to do something with their lives. 

I never argued that the courts aren't racist or the system as a whole may be racist. I'm being very specific with my issue and that's labeling the police on the street as racist. Don't use the term law enforcement so loosely then. Be specific with where your blame lies. When a certain presidential candidate, Bernie Sanders, literally says, "Be respectful with the police so you don't get shot in the back of the head" that is only aimed at the patrol officer on the street and continuing to push a B.S. narrative that is something that happens everyday in America because it simply isn't true. And Biden's done it, and Warren's done it as well. Are there examples out there? Sure there are, but there are statistics out there that state on a daily basis 99.9% of interactions with law enforcement end well and safely and that's part of the FBI national study on this very topic. 

Here is another article that maybe gives better cites than the last one. Force Science Institute is a VERY respectable institution. https://www.forcescience.org/2019/08/researchers-find-no-racial-disparity-in-police-deadly-forceand-thats-just-the-beginning/

 
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