Lubick to leave?

All Hail Herbie said:
No issue with your post, I just want us to start thinking creatively in finding a solution to our problems.  We are simply not equipped to be Oregon of 10 years ago so let's not work on getting that band back together.

Herman has experience in the Big 10, Big XII and American.  His offensive methodology has largely worked across conferences.  We need a counterweight in the offensive game planning / play calling to Coach Frost.  
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Yeah I get what you're saying, and if that could be be pulled off I'd give it two thumbs up. However, a creative way of thinking is going to have to be pulling out a diamond in the rough. Herman would be an obvious choice IMO but, Its also the obvious choice for about anyone who has a coordinator position available. I know project coordinators don't usually work out, but that's just kind of where we are now. Lubick is probably as high profile of a name we are capable of getting at this point. Honestly, I would also be surprised if he's actually going anywhere, anyways. So it probably doesn't matter much either way. 

 
cornheadnation said:
Yeah I get what you're saying, and if that could be be pulled off I'd give it two thumbs up. However, a creative way of thinking is going to have to be pulling out a diamond in the rough. Herman would be an obvious choice IMO but, Its also the obvious choice for about anyone who has a coordinator position available. I know project coordinators don't usually work out, but that's just kind of where we are now. Lubick is probably as high profile of a name we are capable of getting at this point. Honestly, I would also be surprised if he's actually going anywhere, anyways. So it probably doesn't matter much either way. 
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I agree with you on both our prospects for landing a top notch coordinator as well as Lubick's future.  Bottom line is we are maximum 24 months away from a future with or without Coach Frost.  I would rather he go down swinging with an "all in" approach to fixing this, then simply deferring to the status quo.  We as a fanbase need some tangible evidence of progress, not more declarations of good things to come.

 
All Hail Herbie said:
I agree with you on both our prospects for landing a top notch coordinator as well as Lubick's future.  Bottom line is we are maximum 24 months away from a future with or without Coach Frost.  I would rather he go down swinging with an "all in" approach to fixing this, then simply deferring to the status quo.  We as a fanbase need some tangible evidence of progress, not more declarations of good things to come.
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I don't think bringing in a brand new OC that has a different scheme that would entail a large re-training of the staff and players is a recipe for success in 2021. Frost has been instilling a system for 3 years and has an OC he seems to trust to take on most of the play calling duties. The games in which Lubick called last season were pretty encouraging. 2020 had a myriad of issues that I think everyone seems to overlook. The Offense was trying to rebuild to a large extent with a new coordinator, new roles for other coaches, Austin taking over as Run Game coordinator for instance, lots of new players, especially at WR, to get coached up on the system, yet they didn't get the standard off season practices to allow for the needed growth. Lubick was a new hire brought in just before a pandemic hit, Spring Ball got cut way short and the pre-season camp wasn't normal either; he was asked to analyze what is wrong with the offense, get an entire offensive staff on the same page with him on the needed changes and foster the needed staff chemistry despite all of the changes. He didn't get the normal development time with the players, with WR cupboard that was bare of experienced talent at WR except for Wandale; they were relying on a talented crop of incoming RAW players to bolster the WR position. Compare all of that to what was the situation for the D, Chin had an experienced staff that were all on the same page, had coached the system together for many years, and a litany of experienced talent to work with. Is it any wonder that the D was better than the O this past season. I was encouraged by the growth I saw out of the O over the latter part of the season, it seemed clear to me that things were starting to click for the players and staff. 

At some point assistant coaching stability is needed for true growth, especially at the coordinator position. If you are truly putting Frost on a 24 month clock, changing up coaches AGAIN isn't the answer IMO. Give Frost and Lubick a chance to build on the growth made through the 2020 season with an offseason in which they should get a full set of Spring and Summer practices. 

 
caveman99 said:
I don't think bringing in a brand new OC that has a different scheme that would entail a large re-training of the staff and players is a recipe for success in 2021. Frost has been instilling a system for 3 years and has an OC he seems to trust to take on most of the play calling duties. The games in which Lubick called last season were pretty encouraging. 2020 had a myriad of issues that I think everyone seems to overlook. The Offense was trying to rebuild to a large extent with a new coordinator, new roles for other coaches, Austin taking over as Run Game coordinator for instance, lots of new players, especially at WR, to get coached up on the system, yet they didn't get the standard off season practices to allow for the needed growth. Lubick was a new hire brought in just before a pandemic hit, Spring Ball got cut way short and the pre-season camp wasn't normal either; he was asked to analyze what is wrong with the offense, get an entire offensive staff on the same page with him on the needed changes and foster the needed staff chemistry despite all of the changes. He didn't get the normal development time with the players, with WR cupboard that was bare of experienced talent at WR except for Wandale; they were relying on a talented crop of incoming RAW players to bolster the WR position. Compare all of that to what was the situation for the D, Chin had an experienced staff that were all on the same page, had coached the system together for many years, and a litany of experienced talent to work with. Is it any wonder that the D was better than the O this past season. I was encouraged by the growth I saw out of the O over the latter part of the season, it seemed clear to me that things were starting to click for the players and staff. 

At some point assistant coaching stability is needed for true growth, especially at the coordinator position. If you are truly putting Frost on a 24 month clock, changing up coaches AGAIN isn't the answer IMO. Give Frost and Lubick a chance to build on the growth made through the 2020 season with an offseason in which they should get a full set of Spring and Summer practices. 
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As a principle, I believe strongly in program continuity.  Having said that, there are two components to continuity, staff and personnel.  Given the player attrition amongst underclassmen that we have witnessed the past 3 years, and the consensus that a degree of this will exist each year with the transfer portal, we need staff who can instill simple concepts quickly, both defense and offense.  

In terms of the offense, you know we will be "young and inexperienced" again this year and in year 5 despite the staff continuity.  Despite the excitement over the raft of new players entering the program, it is unrealistic for any of them to be major contributors prior to the end of this upcoming season.

Make no mistake, we are on a 24 month timetable and this will be the "chance" that Lubick and Frost are afforded.

 
All Hail Herbie said:
As a principle, I believe strongly in program continuity.  Having said that, there are two components to continuity, staff and personnel.  Given the player attrition amongst underclassmen that we have witnessed the past 3 years, and the consensus that a degree of this will exist each year with the transfer portal, we need staff who can instill simple concepts quickly, both defense and offense.  

In terms of the offense, you know we will be "young and inexperienced" again this year and in year 5 despite the staff continuity.  Despite the excitement over the raft of new players entering the program, it is unrealistic for any of them to be major contributors prior to the end of this upcoming season.

Make no mistake, we are on a 24 month timetable and this will be the "chance" that Lubick and Frost are afforded.
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You keep bringing up a 24 month timetable...am I missing something? Are you in the know that Frost have been given a 24 month notice?

 
Touchdown Tommie said:
You keep bringing up a 24 month timetable...am I missing something? Are you in the know that Frost have been given a 24 month notice?
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No, but 5 years in this era is more than adequate to determine whether the current course is working.  If in 24 months we have extended the bowl-less streak to 6 years, I would hope the fan base could see that this approach is not the future.  No further extensions necessary and we wish him well.

 
All Hail Herbie said:
No, but 5 years in this era is more than adequate to determine whether the current course is working.  If in 24 months we have extended the bowl-less streak to 6 years, I would hope the fan base could see that this approach is not the future.  No further extensions necessary and we wish him well.
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I think Frost himself would resign if we missed 2 more years of bowl games.  

As to your inexperience comments above, I strongly disagree.  Players who don't win starting roles can and will transfer occasionally.  This is happening everywhere.  However, those that win starting roles will rarely transfer.  We will be significantly more experienced as a team this coming season and even more so in 2022.  

 
All Hail Herbie said:
As a principle, I believe strongly in program continuity.  Having said that, there are two components to continuity, staff and personnel.  Given the player attrition amongst underclassmen that we have witnessed the past 3 years, and the consensus that a degree of this will exist each year with the transfer portal, we need staff who can instill simple concepts quickly, both defense and offense.  

In terms of the offense, you know we will be "young and inexperienced" again this year and in year 5 despite the staff continuity.  Despite the excitement over the raft of new players entering the program, it is unrealistic for any of them to be major contributors prior to the end of this upcoming season.

Make no mistake, we are on a 24 month timetable and this will be the "chance" that Lubick and Frost are afforded.
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Yes they are again dealing with a lack of experience at WR and frankly at RB, that is the biggest challenge this year IMO. The difference is that the staff SHOULD get a full offseason to develop this time vs. what happened in 2020. Last year was tough because of all of the changes and lack of experience coupled with an irregular set of circumstances reducing the opportunities for growth in the offseason. I am not commenting on your statement of the staff being on a 24 months timeline or not, I am simply stating that adding in more change will only serve to impede the needed growth this year; adding in the additional complexities that changing coaches and philosophies will bring would be detrimental IMO. I think that continuity of staff and a normal offseason program gives the best chance for the offense to improve significantly this year. 

 
All Hail Herbie said:
Rather than seeking prior coaches from the Oregon tree of 10 years ago, how would the group feel about a surprise hire such as Tom Herman for OC?  He has quite a bit of pedigree in offensive gameplanning / playcalling and would bring a fresh perspective to our offense.

Just because his HC situation did not work at Texas (which is a graveyard for many) does not necessarily mean he would not be an excellent assistant (former Broyles Award Winner).

Think Steve Sarkisian with this approach.
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The day Herman was fired I told my sons I wish Frost would bring him here to run the O.

 
Real-life football isn't Madden. You don't just bring in a new system or coach or playbook and everybody gets it right away; these things take months and years of teaching. Lots of people are great at getting on the white board and scheming stuff up, but scheming stuff up is maybe 25 percent of the battle; the other 75 percent of it is the logistics of teaching 50+ teenagers the system. The more base stuff is already installed, the more fine details you can teach them. We should all be hoping for continuity. 

Also Tom Herman is a giant dbag.

 
J-MAGIC said:
Real-life football isn't Madden. You don't just bring in a new system or coach or playbook and everybody gets it right away; these things take months and years of teaching. Lots of people are great at getting on the white board and scheming stuff up, but scheming stuff up is maybe 25 percent of the battle; the other 75 percent of it is the logistics of teaching 50+ teenagers the system. The more base stuff is already installed, the more fine details you can teach them. We should all be hoping for continuity. 

Also Tom Herman is a giant dbag.
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Saban disagrees with you. 

 
BaytownHusker said:
I  think Ohio State would disagree also lol
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Throw in Dabo......Good coaches are able to seamlessly transition.  It's why they are good.  They play chess ie having a "guy in mind", getting assistants prepared and ultimately intimately knowing their system and how to teach it across the board.  Almost creating a plug and play system with staff. 

 
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