Economy

[Decked]

Nasdaq composite has only had back to back 5%+ declines 3 times in history

Today will be the 4th if it holds.

The good news...everything is on sale.  The bad news is...Who knows when it start to go back up.

Im seriously thinking about buying a sizeable chunk of stock. Hard day of nothing left to do at work has made it even more compelling. 

 

[JJ Husker]

Holy f#&%. You want to talk about blind partisan spite? 

What literally happened, chief, is that the economy tanked during the Covid pandemic and economic shutdown, which happened during the Trump administration and was not the president's fault, being an unprecedented global pandemic and all.

That same global pandemic created a massive supply chain disruption, that when combined with huge federal payouts by both the Trump and Biden administrations caused an inflationary spike that was both predicted and global. The stock market responded in predictable ways. We were told it was transitory because it was and despite the U.S. economy emerging from the pandemic better than virtually every other country on Earth -- actually increasing our leverage on countries like China -- blind partisan idiots shrieked about inflation not shrinking fast enough and utterly refused to acknowledge the impressive performance of the U.S. economy as long as Biden was in office.

If you're trying to cherry pick numbers from the unprecedented global pandemic with numbers from the 100% avoidable and mystifying inflationary actions of Donald Trump, just admit it's a fools errand run by people addicted to carrying Donald Trump's pisswater. 

Strong contender for post of the month and it’s only 4 days in.

 

[Danny Bateman]

No they haven’t.  What they have done is just disagree with almost everything from 2017-2021 and now, while agreeing with or poo-pooing anything negative during the Biden term out of spite for Trump.   Which is fine, but at least call it what it is.  
They seem fine with uncontrolled illegal immigration (except JJ), they seem fine with Far Left Social nonsense, they seem fine with uncontrolled debt, they seem fine with give away like cancelling loans (again except JJ), they were fine with things like crossfire hurricane, the fbi along with 51 IC folks trying to falsely say Russia was behind the Hunter laptop and Trump was working for Russia.  They were fine with the size of federal government getting bloated at a 10% average annual growth rate for 4 years while historical it should be 1-2%.   Stuff it sounds they would normally be opposed to but cause Cheeto was in charge/and or running, they were fine with it (except for JJ in cases) 

They seem like they’re those things because you gorge yourself on right-wing agitprop that screws up your frame of reference so you can’t tell people who are politically sensible from the caricature of insane far leftists you think are ruining the country.

Based on your stated political beliefs, you don’t really have the credibility to call out others for not being politically moderate. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

Interesting enough we don’t actually have to imagine that.   It literally happened.  A rise to 9% inflation when we were constantly told it was just transitory and didn’t really hurt our pocket books all the while the S&P tanked from 4725 down to 3580.  Which is a drop great is raw number and percentage than what we experienced now.   Yet, I was constantly told the market isn’t the economy and it’s just for the rich.  Not much mention at all about 401k’s back then.  Oh, tech you asked….NASDAQ was down from 16,057 to 10,480.  

Pardon me for being rude...but what a load of crap.

The difference here is that back then, we knew exactly why we had inflation.  It was a worldwide issue caused by the pandemic and it's response.  MUCH of that happened under Trumpo (if you need to blame a President).  However, while inflation was at very high levels in the US....all of a sudden Republicans totally FORGOT everything that happened before Biden was elected and followed (congrats you still are) the party line of blaming everything on Biden because...hey...he's President now.

They very conveniently totally ignore the fact that inflation was a worldwide issue and the fact that the US was actually doing better than any other industrialized country at the time.

And...it wasn't being friggen ignored.  The feds were doing what they could to fight it...which was raising interest rates.

Back then, I specifically remember asking you...what else do you want the government to do to decrease inflation and you had nothing.

So....the mantra of Biden just ignoring the inflation is laughable from anyone not committed to the Republican party line.

The difference now is that we know EXACTLY what is causing the crash of our economy and it is TOTALLY self inflicted by this wonderful President that your party has given all of us and the people from that party that still support him.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Here there Chief.  Are you really really really gonna make post months worth of “transitory inflation” comments and “Russia caused inflation” comments.  Even with as crappy of a mobile site this is, I guess I would if you make me.   And if you think transitory is 15 months, then I guess we can consider most things “transitory” lol.   What was the strategy for taming inflation that was known to be a problem eventually???   Oh yeah, spend more and more and more government money!!!   On top of the excess that Trump/Pelosi/McConnell spent during 2020.  
 

It don’t respond until Nov/Dec 2021 and didn’t bottom until Nov 2022.   We know the market is forward thinking and in some ways by up to 6 months.  Inflation was beginning to rear its ugly head April-June and it wasn’t until Nov when the market saw Biden was not only not going to do anything about it, but from a policy perspective actually make it worse.  Hence the protracted drop.  
 

Any idea on why the US has a faster rebound than most other industrialized countries?   Hint….you really won’t like the answer.  Second hint…..the 2020 economic trough is a good place to begin.  If need be, I got some handy dandy charts I can get for you. 

The numbers aren’t cherry picked and I’m not trying to compare them to DJT tariff induced stock market.  Each situation is unique to its own and each President is responsible for them.  See how that works.   Assign blame properly and not in partisan ways, Chief.  

Are you really going to keep making posts that don't mention an unprecedented global pandemic?

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

They seem like they’re those things because you gorge yourself on right-wing agitprop that screws up your frame of reference so you can’t tell people who are politically sensible from the caricature of insane far leftists you think are ruining the country.

Based on your stated political beliefs, you don’t really have the credibility to call out others for not being politically moderate. 

This is a strong post. 

 

[Archy1221]

I pay the full amount which in 2025 is about $1700/mo. with a $6,500 per person deductible, $13,000 for the two of us. I’ve looked and looked for other plans, they aren’t any cheaper but they do exclude pre-existing conditions etc. Want to talk about non-viable options?

In 2012, the average annual deductible for a person with a HDHP was just barely over $2,000.  You know pay 3 times that amount in just 13 years.  
An average PPO plan per person deductible in 2012 was basically $700.   You pay $5800 more than that in just 13 years.

The average annual premium for a HDHP in 2012 for insured plus spouse was $8,000-$10,000 per year.  You pay $20,400.  More than double the amount in just 13 years.  

 

[Archy1221]

They very conveniently totally ignore the fact that inflation was a worldwide issue and the fact that the US was actually doing better than any other industrialized country at the time.

Why?  
 

Back then, I specifically remember asking you...what else do you want the government to do to decrease inflation and you had nothing.

Are you sure I didn’t say stop the excess spending?  
 

all of a sudden Republicans totally FORGOT everything that happened before Biden was elected and followed (congrats you still are) the party line of blaming everything on Biden because...hey...he's President now.

Are you sure I didn’t assign some blame to Trump and Codie spending back then and just today?  Cause if so, that sure doesn’t sound like “everything”. 
 

So....the mantra of Biden just ignoring the inflation is laughable from anyone not committed to the Republican party line.

Yet they did ignore it…….until they couldn’t ignore it any longer. 
 

The difference now is that we know EXACTLY what is causing the crash of our economy and it is TOTALLY self inflicted by this wonderful President that your party has given all of us and the people from that party that still support him

Have I disputed what is causing this market crash? Not to my knowledge. 

 

[Archy1221]

Are you really going to keep making posts that don't mention an unprecedented global pandemic?

Isn’t it assumed we know Covid was a thing?  Are people out there that don’t know this or that it was an issue in 2020 and into 2021?  
 

Are you ever going to mention why the US rebounded faster than other countries and why US inflation lowered faster than European countries and what was the main driver of inflation for each area?  

 

[JJ Husker]

You are trying to compare an ACA plan to a non ACA plan in terms of cost of each one.  That is something I am NOT doing.  I am talking about the year over year price increases REGARDLESS of what type of plan is purchased.  Those are 2 totally different things.  So I guess I have to laugh also since you are misconstruing what is being said again. 

In 2012, the average annual deductible for a person with a HDHP was just barely over $2,000.  You know pay 3 times that amount in just 13 years.  
An average PPO plan per person deductible in 2012 was basically $700.   You pay $5800 more than that in just 13 years.

The average annual premium for a HDHP in 2012 for insured plus spouse was $8,000-$10,000 per year.  You pay $20,400.  More than double the amount in just 13 years.  

You responded to my comment that there was a one-time increase due to the ACA requiring the inclusion of sickies, pre-existing conditions etc. That is true. That first jump was out of line with the rest of the market.

I am not disputing that ACA plans have continued to increase premiums and deductibles. I know all too well that is a fact. I assume everybody knows that all plans, ACA or not, have continued to increase in cost. So I still maintain that your claim of Obamacare being responsible for increased healthcare/premium costs is false. Healthcare costs were and continue to climb regardless of the ACA. It’s the most critical part of the whole issue that Obamacare did not fix and it’s likely due to appeasing enough Rs to pass it to begin with.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

In 2012, the average annual deductible for a person with a HDHP was just barely over $2,000.  You know pay 3 times that amount in just 13 years.  
An average PPO plan per person deductible in 2012 was basically $700.   You pay $5800 more than that in just 13 years.

The average annual premium for a HDHP in 2012 for insured plus spouse was $8,000-$10,000 per year.  You pay $20,400.  More than double the amount in just 13 years.  

You are aware that the population is what we call "getting older" and this is because of a phenomenon called "the linear passage of time" and that insurance rates depend on young, healthy people subsidizing their insurance, and the ratio of old people we call Baby Boomers compared to young people we call Millennials is a lot higher than when Boomers were in their 30s paying for the healthcare of the Greatest Generation, yes?

You can mess with Demographic pyramids and see for yourself: there are just a lot more old people today relative to the population than in 1980 or 1990. The cost of healthcare is skyrocketing because Boomers are getting old and use massive amounts of it.

They seem like they’re those things because you gorge yourself on right-wing agitprop that screws up your frame of reference so you can’t tell people who are politically sensible from the caricature of insane far leftists you think are ruining the country.

Based on your stated political beliefs, you don’t really have the credibility to call out others for not being politically moderate. 

The endless consumption of right wing slop in the MAGA trough is why this country is currently on a doom sprial.

The sad part is you would think that just maybe the millions of voters like Archy would have a come to Jesus moment right about now. But sadly they will not. It is hopeless.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Why?  

Why what?  Our inflation was lower and started coming down before there's and our GDP was good.

Are you sure I didn’t say stop the excess spending?  
 

No, you didn't.

Are you sure I didn’t assign some blame to Trump and Codie spending back then and just today?  Cause if so, that sure doesn’t sound like “everything”. 
 

No, you didn't.  I specifically remember you saying something like "Biden is President now, not him".

Yet they did ignore it…….until they couldn’t ignore it any longer. 

No, they didn't.  The feds were fighting inflation the normal way the feds do.  

Have I disputed what is causing this market crash? Not to my knowledge. 

Didn't say you did.

 

[JJ Husker]

The ACA was a compromise, and as such its performance was weakened, especially in red states where local politicians could sabotage the buy-in.

While it could have been better and we still have a long way to go, it was a very helpful option for my family and millions of others. There's no compelling argument that American healthcare was better off before Obamacare. 

With everything we know about Donald Trump, what kind of healthcare solution do you think he would propose?

My statement that he should be fixing healthcare instead of f#&%ing up the US economy is, of course, only to say that one is a very real problem while the other is a problem of his own creation that doesn’t solve squat.

I’m too squeamish to entertain the thought of what he would attempt to actually fix it. All I know is that it would make it much worse and not better.

 

[Archy1221]

Healthcare costs were and continue to climb regardless of the ACA. It’s the most critical part of the whole issue that Obamacare did not fix and it’s likely due to appeasing enough Rs to pass it to begin with

 Not at the same historical rate and then combined with deductible increase which is my entire point you keep avoiding.  I’ve never once tried to say healthcare costs would go down with or without ACA 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

The pandemic part was not his fault. The shredding of the pandemic response plan Obama left him and sticking his head in the sand thinking it would all disappear on its own was. He made it MUCH MUCH worse with his response to it. 

Well it's certainly true that the paranoid conspiracy cult forgot that the Obama administration didn't trust the Chinese government and kept a pandemic response team on the ground in China for that very reason. Until Trump cut them out for being, you know, Obama.