The Democrat Utopia

Guy Chamberlin said:
There's certainly some truth to this, but at the end of the day virtually no one on the Left considers either Biden or Harris One of Them. 

The Chuck Shumer wing believed that by staying Centrist they could replace any lost lefty college voter with five wavering Republicans. That was definitely the wrong take. 

The next election belongs to the candidate who understands the massive overlap in the Populist vote, which has never been exactly left or right but united in its mistrust of elites.That might include going against the wishes of both the DNC and RNC. Genuine charisma will be required. 
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I still don't know how much of these mythical swing voters there are and if they move elections or if it's more so a large apathetic group on each side that chooses to vote or not in each election. Neither side seems to have a real viable candidate with any charisma or anything to get the base excited. JD Vance and Rubio are both wet farts with 0 real personality that I don't think America will enjoy at all being exposed to more. Bernie is too old at this point and the dnc already has shown what they will do when he gets close. Pete has been doing well even though I'm not a huge fan of his, but you can tell the immediate response from Fox News is to dog whistle homophobia and unfortunately as much as the country is progressing I don't think a lot of people will never vote for a not straight person.  I think anti elite sentiment can be an effective message but Trump winning does put water on the theory that people overwhelmingly care about that. 

 
PasstheDamnBallGuy said:
 I think anti elite sentiment can be an effective message but Trump winning does put water on the theory that people overwhelmingly care about that. 
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Disagree. From the very beginning Donald Trump took the outlier role, and whipped up lots of excitement by badmouthing the elites. Populism is about giving power to the masses, pointing out that they outnumber an elite entrenched minority who think they're better, smarter, and more entitled than the average American. In Trump's narrative, those elites are represented by the scientists, media, academics, and government, and included ripping on both the Democratic and Republican establishments. A lot of people really like that. 

There was a weird dynamic from the 2016 primaries where voters said they were considering both Trump and Sanders -- two guys with totally opposing ideologies but bringing the same outsider appeal.

Trump supporters have never bothered to square that the man wreaking havoc on the elites came to his job as a New York billionaire who hosted the popular network TV show "Celebrity Apprentice."  Liberals would prefer "elites" be reserved for the wealthiest people in the world, but that's not how Trump is ever going to play it. 

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Disagree. From the very beginning Donald Trump took the outlier role, and whipped up lots of excitement by badmouthing the elites. Populism is about giving power to the masses, pointing out that they outnumber an elite entrenched minority who think they're better, smarter, and more entitled than the average American. In Trump's narrative, those elites are represented by the scientists, media, academics, and government, and included ripping on both the Democratic and Republican establishments. A lot of people really like that. 

There was a weird dynamic from the 2016 primaries where voters said they were considering both Trump and Sanders -- two guys with totally opposing ideologies but bringing the same outsider appeal.

Trump supporters have never bothered to square that the man wreaking havoc on the elites came to his job as a New York billionaire who hosted the popular network TV show "Celebrity Apprentice."  Liberals would prefer "elites" be reserved for the wealthiest people in the world, but that's not how Trump is ever going to play it. 
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I agree in 2016. I meant about this past election. In 2016 he somehow convinced a lot of people of that rhetoric and it worked perfectly against Clinton who had that stink on her for good reason. Since he has done things so much worse than the things he got her so well on in 2016 though. I don't think he could have sold that again after budying up with the richest man in the world and not draining the swamp in any provable way of any kind at all. His messaging last election was hey don't y'all hate foreigners and those icky queer people. The funny thing is Bernie would have probably foiled him pretty well but it's hard to know if the large swaths of Americans that check for communists under their bed at night would have been frightened by some social welfare policies. 

 
Archy1221 said:
Please Santa!!!!!
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It's important to note that Democrats are absolutely not learning their lessons from 2024 and seem to have an attitude that Donald Trump is self evidently evil and that the public will come back to their side by running back the same politics of 2018-2024.

AOC has lower popularity than Trump even after his obvious corruption. 

RedDenver said:
It's ridiculous you think disagreeing with Israel's government makes "the left" unelectable.

But keep running center-right Dems, it's totally working out 
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Disagreeing with Israel is unpopular, and the left largely embodies anti-Israel sentiment. Distancing themselves from said movements makes them appear more moderate to voters who don't know what Gaza is and who, unfortunately, decide elections. 

Center-right Democrats were the best performing candidates - BY FAR - in 2024. Democrats are still more unpopular than Republicans and the party is extraordinarily toxic to the voting public. They need to recruit and run candidates that can win in red states, and we have to accept that those candidates are going to resemble Mitt Romney.

If relying on Thermostatic Politics is all Democrats can do, they should give up on politics and make way for a new party to actually try to win. Because right now, the woke-social justice version of the left doesn't even pretend to have a plan to win the Senate back in the next two decades. They have absolutely no plan to deal with the 2030 census and what the Electoral College is going to do to them. 

 
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Dr. Strangelove said:
It's important to note that Democrats are absolutely not learning their lessons from 2024 and seem to have an attitude that Donald Trump is self evidently evil and that the public will come back to their side by running back the same politics of 2018-2024.

AOC has lower popularity than Trump even after his obvious corruption. 

Disagreeing with Israel is unpopular, and the left largely embodies anti-Israel sentiment. Distancing themselves from said movements makes them appear more moderate to voters who don't know what Gaza is and who, unfortunately, decide elections. 

Center-right Democrats were the best performing candidates - BY FAR - in 2024. Democrats are still more unpopular than Republicans and the party is extraordinarily toxic to the voting public. They need to recruit and run candidates that can win in red states, and we have to accept that those candidates are going to resemble Mitt Romney.

If relying on Thermostatic Politics is all Democrats can do, they should give up on politics and make way for a new party to actually try to win. Because right now, the woke-social justice version of the left doesn't even pretend to have a plan to win the Senate back in the next two decades. They have absolutely no plan to deal with the 2030 census and what the Electoral College is going to do to them. 
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Classic Dem approach for the last decade or so: lose elections then blame "the left".

The plan you're describing is literally the exact same thing we were told the last 3 elections. That plan lost to Trump 2 out of 3 times. But I'm sure the 4th time's the charm.

 
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RedDenver said:
Classic Dem approach for the last decade or so: lose elections then blame "the left".

The plan you're describing is literally the exact same thing we were told the last 3 elections. That plan lost to Trump 2 out of 3 times. But I'm sure the 4th time's the charm.
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Well, yeah. That's because there's a host of imperial evidence that the ideas of "the left" are massively unpopular and why Democrats lost ground in states like New Jersey.

Left wing ideas like biological men playing in women's sports has a 70% disapproval rating... *AMONG REGISTERED DEMOCRATS*

So yes, left wing ideas are responsible for deeply unpopular positions. In fact, the left wing view of removing advanced placement is literally the most unpopular policy *ever polled*. The Left is responsible for Democrats edge on education, one of their *strongest historical positions* to erode. 

Nominate moderates, adopt moderate positions, and we can win more elections. But by all means, if you have evidence that the Left Wing is a political asset and that those candidates over perform, feel free to provide them. 

 
Dr. Strangelove said:
Well, yeah. That's because there's a host of imperial evidence that the ideas of "the left" are massively unpopular and why Democrats lost ground in states like New Jersey.

Left wing ideas like biological men playing in women's sports has a 70% disapproval rating... *AMONG REGISTERED DEMOCRATS*

So yes, left wing ideas are responsible for deeply unpopular positions. In fact, the left wing view of removing advanced placement is literally the most unpopular policy *ever polled*. The Left is responsible for Democrats edge on education, one of their *strongest historical positions* to erode. 

Nominate moderates, adopt moderate positions, and we can win more elections. But by all means, if you have evidence that the Left Wing is a political asset and that those candidates over perform, feel free to provide them. 
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How do things like banning muslims, deporting US citizens, suspending habeus corpus, gutting medicare and media censorship poll? 

Of course, it's not a fair fight since you're giving fringe minority left examples and I'm giving establishment White House right examples, so we could reframe a bit. How does eliminating jews and non-whites poll against trans athletes in women's sports? 

 
Dr. Strangelove said:
Well, yeah. That's because there's a host of imperial evidence that the ideas of "the left" are massively unpopular and why Democrats lost ground in states like New Jersey.

Left wing ideas like biological men playing in women's sports has a 70% disapproval rating... *AMONG REGISTERED DEMOCRATS*

So yes, left wing ideas are responsible for deeply unpopular positions. In fact, the left wing view of removing advanced placement is literally the most unpopular policy *ever polled*. The Left is responsible for Democrats edge on education, one of their *strongest historical positions* to erode. 

Nominate moderates, adopt moderate positions, and we can win more elections. But by all means, if you have evidence that the Left Wing is a political asset and that those candidates over perform, feel free to provide them. 
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Hey, I'm not going to pretend this is easy, but much of this is still a matter of message and messenger. One of the reasons some liberal positions are so unpopular is because the Right has been allowed to frame them. Americans are largely in favor of single payer healthcare, until you call it socialism. Transgender women playing sports should never rise to election deciding issue -- and was never even a policy plank -- but Republicans utterly demonized it. I'll take your word on Advanced Placement, but I'm guessing the people who would list it as an electoral priority number in the dozens. Things like free childcare and free community college get framed like left wing socialist giveaways, but the savvier message and messenger would show how they directly benefit employees and employers, more than returning the investment to the private sector. 

Keeping in mind that liberals are also responsible for yesterday's deeply unpopular positions like the five day work week, allowing the negro and white to marry, protecting the air & water, and allowing women to get a credit card without their husband's approval.

A majority of Americans also favor stricter gun control, safe, legal abortion, and shifting the tax burden from the working and middle classes back to the wealthy. A majority of Americans also don't seem to understand how the economy works. That's another messaging + messenger issue.

Mitt Romney? f#&% that. Seriously? We are only 17 years removed from Mitt Romney losing his own election. If we're going with the "corporations are people, too" crowd, what's they point? Centrist Dems lifting their skirts to moderate Republicans has hurt more than it has helped. Although I'd advise anyone in a local election to take the temperature of their district and tune their campaign to the most pertinent issue --- which is almost always economic and favors the Democrat. I don't know why Democrats can't frame their economic advantage better. Maybe it's cause they're up against a cult.

Unless you are a royalist, Strangelove, I think you meant "empirical" rather than imperial evidence.

 
Dr. Strangelove said:
Well, yeah. That's because there's a host of imperial evidence that the ideas of "the left" are massively unpopular and why Democrats lost ground in states like New Jersey.

Left wing ideas like biological men playing in women's sports has a 70% disapproval rating... *AMONG REGISTERED DEMOCRATS*

So yes, left wing ideas are responsible for deeply unpopular positions. In fact, the left wing view of removing advanced placement is literally the most unpopular policy *ever polled*. The Left is responsible for Democrats edge on education, one of their *strongest historical positions* to erode. 

Nominate moderates, adopt moderate positions, and we can win more elections. But by all means, if you have evidence that the Left Wing is a political asset and that those candidates over perform, feel free to provide them. 
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In what world is that a “left wing idea”? Ever heard of the horseshoe theory. Means someone is so far left or so far right that they overlap with the other extreme side. The people who advocate for that stuff are these types of people on the political spectrum. Actual left wing ideas like universal healthcare are extremely popular when polled.

What your plan does is push out every voter even remotely left wing from the democratic party to create a republican light party. You might win the next election, but the only thing that gets you is a smarter, more charasmatic facist leader that can actually implement the things Trump is too dumb to implement. There needs to be changes in this country and fix the s#!t that has been broken for decades so they cant be used every election as an election issue, like immigration reform. So ive asked you before but never got an answer, what party are left leaning voters like myself supposed to vote for? Because Im done if the democratic party moves any further right, which that is what leadership wants. If someone worse than Trump comes along, so be it. This country will deserve everything it gets if they ignore tens of millions of voters that dont have a party to represent them. Good luck in that case. 

 
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Dr. Strangelove said:
Nominate moderates, adopt moderate positions, and we can win more elections.
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Dems having been saying this for over 3 decades now. It only worked for Bill Clinton. Every other Dem that ran on this has lost except Biden in 2020 - and that was mostly the anti-Trump vote. 

Americans want change, not moderation.

 
Biden's decline needed to be called out much earlier. At the end of the day, the Democrats admitted he was a liability and removed him before he could serve a second term.

Your turn.





 
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