The Democrat Utopia

[Dr. Strangelove]

As a counterpoint, ethically, opposing bad is good.

I'm not disagreeing but winning elections is better. If you want to oppose bad, my recommendation is to win so we're the ones that nominate who leads ICE and control the institutions of power.

Public opinion is solidly against Trump on his immigration efforts - his strongest issue - letting him be unpopular and winning elections to counter him is the best an most effective way to defeat MAGA conservatism. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

Remember when Martin Luther King Jr burned cars in the streets and threw bricks at police while chucking bikes and rocks off of overpasses at cars?   
 

I don’t 

If you think there wasn’t violence in demonstrations in the 60s, then you don’t know history. 
 

MLKjr was about peaceful demonstrations. 
 

How does that relate to now?  There were thousands of peaceful demonstrators this week in LA. What is the only thing you’re talking about?

Luckily for us, in the 60s people finally looked past the violence of a minority and listened to the message. 

 

[Archy1221]

If you think there wasn’t violence in demonstrations in the 60s, then you don’t know history

Quite obviously that isn’t what was said.    
 

 

[Ratt Mhule]

Because criminals can wear plain clothes and masks, say they are ICE agents and abduct people, rape people, etc. Law enforcement has a standard to uphold and all agencies policy requires officers to identify themselves. Masking your identity is not policy of ANY law enforcement agencies in the US. 
 

Why do they all of sudden feel the need to conceal their identity? They never have with any other admin. Every admin deports people. If they follow the law and department policy, there wouldnt be any pushback or resistance from citizens. 

https://bsky.app/profile/crampell.bsky.social/post/3lr7ulvuyks2q

Who could have ever seen this coming?

 

[Lorewarn]

The future will decide what appropriate parallels to draw between the 60s and now in terms of them being the same, or similar. But history has already told us that plenty of people will paint whatever's happening in the present moment as anything but what it actually is. 

MLK and his approach were described and perceived by many (by the majority for a long while) along the lines of, “violent, illegal approach of adult‑encouraged truancy”, “on the same level as those who did the church bombing”, “the most dangerous black man in America”, “trouble‑monger,” “rabble‑rouser,” “criminal,” hurting integration and civil rights issues instead of helping. King's sit-ins, boycotts, marches, and peaceful protests were absolutely vilified and painted as violent, reckless and counter productive at the time. Is our evaluative scrutiny that much better now? We'll see.

I'm not disagreeing but winning elections is better. If you want to oppose bad, my recommendation is to win so we're the ones that nominate who leads ICE and control the institutions of power.

Just speaking for myself here, but I don't think I'm going to be encouraged in any way by your ideal Republican DINO candidate's nominations for ICE.You still, after all this time, haven't given any answer as to what good will actually come from winning these elections by becoming 00s Republicans, and only see the winning of the election as the goal.

 

[Lorewarn]

These white right-wing clowns will be like, "This is ruining America!" and then post a photo of the coolest guys ever. Our strategic reserves of cool guys are already low, who's gonna replenish it when we deport these dudes? Charlie Kirk? He could never.

 

[Archy1221]

King's sit-ins, boycotts, marches, and peaceful protests

Quite a bit different than throwing scooters and bricks off an overpass at cops and lighting Waymo’s on fire, breaking windows at police station, etc    At least in my opinion, but I understand people think differently.  

 

[teachercd]

The future will decide what appropriate parallels to draw between the 60s and now in terms of them being the same, or similar. But history has already told us that plenty of people will paint whatever's happening in the present moment as anything but what it actually is. 

MLK and his approach were described and perceived by many (by the majority for a long while) along the lines of, “violent, illegal approach of adult‑encouraged truancy”, “on the same level as those who did the church bombing”, “the most dangerous black man in America”, “trouble‑monger,” “rabble‑rouser,” “criminal,” hurting integration and civil rights issues instead of helping. King's sit-ins, boycotts, marches, and peaceful protests were absolutely vilified and painted as violent, reckless and counter productive at the time. Is our evaluative scrutiny that much better now? We'll see.

Just speaking for myself here, but I don't think I'm going to be encouraged in any way by your ideal Republican DINO candidate's nominations for ICE.You still, after all this time, haven't given any answer as to what good will actually come from winning these elections by becoming 00s Republicans, and only see the winning of the election as the goal.

Landy...there is a big difference between someone saying "Oh, those guys are violent" compared to people that are actually setting cop cars on fire and throwing rocks at cops.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Remember when Martin Luther King Jr burned cars in the streets and threw bricks at police while chucking bikes and rocks off of overpasses at cars?   
 

I don’t 

Scathing comeback. Missed the point.

MLK led peaceful protests and advocated non-violent resistance, but they often occurred concurrently with violent confrontations encouraged by increased police presence because negroes had gathered in the streets as part of the same civil rights uprising. For that reason MLK's white allies told him he needed to be more patient and less confrontational because America just wasn't ready for equality. That, of course, was the coward's way out.

I guess MLK said it better himself: 


“I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”


― Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from the Birmingham Jail

p.s. he was in Birmingham Jail for peaceful protest

 

[BigRedBuster]

Scathing comeback. Missed the point.

MLK led peaceful protests and advocated non-violent resistance, but they often occurred concurrently with violent confrontations encouraged by increased police presence because negroes had gathered in the streets as part of the same civil rights uprising. For that reason MLK's white allies told him he needed to be more patient and less confrontational because America just wasn't ready for equality. That, of course, was the coward's way out.

I guess MLK said it better himself: 


“I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”


― Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from the Birmingham Jail

Sounds familiar.

 

[teachercd]

For those of you that have been a part of a protest...did you do anything violent?  

Why or why not?

I know @TGHusker husker did some protesting of abortion clinics, did it ever turn violent?  Did you ever throw rocks at the clinic or the doctor(s)?  

I have thrown a rock at a house that was under construction...because I was a badass 12 year old.  

I have also thrown golf clubs, but that was in protest of a shots that clearly should have went straight but instead sliced. 

 

[Nebfanatic]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/09/us/video/nine-news-reporter-la-hit-rubber-bullet-digvid

Who really instigates the violence though? This reporter, doing absolutely nothing wrong, is directly aimed at and shot for reporting the news? 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I mean, if you think the civil rights movements of the 1960s and resist Trump 2.0 are the same, by all means, be prepared to watch in horror as the Trump resistance implodes.

Personally, I don't want JD Vance to win in 2028.

Not the same but plenty of shared DNA. Not just in America but pretty much any country that flexes a growing police state vibe. If it helps, think of it more as a civil rights demonstration from 1952, or a Vietnam protest from 1964. Still early in the game, but the protesters aren't wrong about either the injustice or the agenda. A certain percentage of them turn into rioters upon police confrontation. When this happens in foreign countries, especially Islamic theocracies, Americans typically celebrate the violent rebellion. Even Republicans. 

I'll be the first to admit the optics aren't good when things shift from protest to riot. Regardless of the media's politics, they're always attracted to the flames. Lawlessness in the streets helped get Richard Nixon elected.

But while I'd love to subscribe to the "let the GOP hang themselves" strategy, how do you see that working? Trump runs his performative ICE raids, establishes quasi-military operations under his direct control, sets a variety of unconstitutional precedents, then gets bored and declares victory 20 million illegal immigrants short of his campaign promise. The base will still love it and Dems are still left watching helplessly. It has yet to be seen whether Trump's personal vengeance against blue states will backfire, but if your concerns are electoral rather than moral it's hard to see that paying off. Republicans are most likely to turn on Trump when it hits them in the pocketbook. Even then they find others to blame. I'd love to think his voters will see Donald Trump's willful over-reaction to LA and Mussolini posturing during his military birthday parade and go "Ooops. He really is dangerous." But at this point would you bet on it? 

Also, the biggest criticism of Democrats at the moment is that they're big pussies. I don't see where doing nothing helps that reputation. 

Also, that quote about the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing based on some pretty horrific historical examples. There's probably a middle ground between setting cars on fire and quietly doom scrolling in the kitchen.

 

[TGHusker]

For those of you that have been a part of a protest...did you do anything violent?  

Why or why not?

I know @TGHusker husker did some protesting of abortion clinics, did it ever turn violent?  Did you ever throw rocks at the clinic or the doctor(s)?  

I have thrown a rock at a house that was under construction...because I was a badass 12 year old.  

I have also thrown golf clubs, but that was in protest of a shots that clearly should have went straight but instead sliced. 

Nope - totally peaceful.   True story: at the 'clinic' in Tulsa there were perhaps 80 of us doing more of a silent, prayer vigil but the police were there in force regardless.  Unfortunately, a friend of mine and a church member (the majority of the people there were from the church we were attending), was the Tulsa Police Captain - charged to "protect the clinic".  If he were a civilian, he would have been with us..   So this put him in an awkward spot.  

 

[teachercd]

Nope - totally peaceful.   True story: at the 'clinic' in Tulsa there were perhaps 80 of us doing more of a silent, prayer vigil but the police were there in force regardless.  Unfortunately, a friend of mine and a church member (the majority of the people there were from the church we were attending), was the Tulsa Police Captain - charged to "protect the clinic".  If he were a civilian, he would have been with us..   So this put him in an awkward spot.  

So it IS possible to protest, in peace and pray.