Gun Control

My point about lethality is that take away guns and they will find another way to kill people. Using fertilizer or common cleansers. The web is full of sites that tell people how to make explosives that will kill many more people than guns and be much less selective about it. OKC comes to mind.

There is/was a ban on handguns in the City of Chicago. I never said you called for a ban that was already in place????

I guess I need to take a writing class.

My point about changing the Bill of Rights is because it's clear the SCOTUS is saying that the 2nd Amend. allows for people to keep and bear arms; not just in their houses for self defense but outside the home also.

Read my posts. I never said she was the right type. I don't know if she was or not. If she legally purchased all those weapons I have to make the assumption that she was. I can guess she didn't drive into NYC or Chicago and bought them from a gang member but I could be in error.

10/22 with a bull barrel is great right outa the box with a 2-5 x 40 scope :)

 
rawhide said:
If she legally purchased all those weapons I have to make the assumption that she was. I can guess she didn't drive into the Bronx, Brooklyn, Newark, NJ, Paterson, NJ (where I currently live), and Camden, NJ and bought them from a gang member but I could be in error.
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FIFY

 
rawhide said:
My point about lethality is that take away guns and they will find another way to kill people. Using fertilizer or common cleansers. The web is full of sites that tell people how to make explosives that will kill many more people than guns and be much less selective about it. OKC comes to mind.
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That significantly more difficult than grabbing an AR and a handful of 30 rounders and heading for the nearest crowd. That's probably why we've seen what . . . dozens? . . . of mass shootings for each Oklahoma City.

rawhide said:
There is/was a ban on handguns in the City of Chicago. I never said you called for a ban that was already in place????

I guess I need to take a writing class.
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You raised the handgun ban issue in response to my post.

rawhide said:
My point about changing the Bill of Rights is because it's clear the SCOTUS is saying that the 2nd Amend. allows for people to keep and bear arms; not just in their houses for self defense but outside the home also.
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Who is calling for changing the Bill of Rights? Regulating ownership doesn't require any change to the Constitution. Even Scalia says that reasonable regulations of gun ownership are allowed by the 2nd Amendment.

rawhide said:
10/22 with a bull barrel is great right outa the box with a 2-5 x 40 scope :)
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I just wanted the fun of building one.

16.5" Green Mountain fluted barrel

Volquartsen internals

Hogue stock

Overtravel screw

Etc.

 
I'm not sure if this was mentioned, so forgive me for not perusing the four pages, but, there was an interesting USA Today article a few days ago talking about Australia's gun laws and how they dramatically cut down on their gun crime violence after 1996. I don't remember many of the specifics, but the essentials of their gun law changes were to classify weapons into five different categories and put an outright ban on assault rifle ownership. Getting a gun and getting ammunition became significantly more challenging. They also implemented a buyback program which was responsible for the destruction of 650,000 guns.

Since then, they've had ZERO mass shootings and cut their homicide rate by more than 50 percent.

America is a unique beast when it comes to culture, a gun/crime culture unlike anywhere else in the country. Following Australia's example probably won't have the same drastic effects, but I think it could help quite a bit.

 
rawhide said:
My point about lethality is that take away guns and they will find another way to kill people. Using fertilizer or common cleansers. The web is full of sites that tell people how to make explosives that will kill many more people than guns and be much less selective about it. OKC comes to mind.
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By my interpretation, you think people will still commit a similar number of homocides without guns, and that simply isn't the case. Most gun crimes occur with illegally obtained weapons, as I'm sure you know, so if you stem the flow of these weapons I seriously doubt people are going to resort to poisons and explosives to an extreme extent. If someone wants to kill somebody, or a group of people, they will absolutely find a way and there's no question about that. But I think a lot of people use guns because they're quick, easy, allow for clean getaways and can be used from a distance. They make killing jokingly easy. Most other methods are more intimate, more risky, and possibly less effective.

If the U.S. up and decided all guns are banned tomorrow and every single one was magically destroyed, our crime/homocide numbers would be astronomically lower.

 
But if someone isnt in there right mind already. All the makings of a home made bomb are right there online just waiting to be looked up. You cant deny that someone with no access to a gun could use this method very easily with house hold products. You are right, guns are a easy chicken sh#t way to do your dirty work. But they get a bad wrap because of who is useing them. Maybe if the mom had put her guns up or trigger locked them this wouldnt of happened. Maybe if she knew her son was unstable she would of given her guns to a friend to hold on to them so she didnt half to worry. Where does it start, and where does it end. I like to believe our government would treat us like big boys and girls. If i want to own a ar15 or eat 50 cheeseburgers, or drive a humvee, id like to hope uncle sam was ok with that because that to me is what living in this country is all about. To do what you dam well please as long as you dont harm anyone but yourself. There are rules in place and probally need to be put down alittle tighter. If this had just been another highschool or a office this conversation wouldnt be happening. Im more upset about this then any one i know, i even stopped playing my videogames i was so sickened by what happened. But that doesnt mean that i need to be babysat by my government on what i need or need not to do. The kid could of had a handgun with 30 clips and done the same damage. Doesnt matter, if he didnt have that ar it would of been the handguns or the rifle. Guns aren't to blame there just the tools used. It starts at home with the gun owner and the gun sales people. Keeping your guns safe from anyone other then the people intended on useing them. Maybe there needs to be a ban on selling guns till your 21 for all guns. Id hate to go this route but maybe make it harder for people to buy guns with family members living in the home with mental problems. One of the first things i did when my wife started to go off the deep end was sell my guns. She didnt know how to use them but i didnt want them there for her option. I would still be nervous to have any around not under lock and key. And maybe that is how this needs to be. We as parents are suspost to know our kids and look to see if things were troubling them. I will own guns in the future again and they all will be locked up with only me knowing the code. Im not a huge government conspiracy nut but im telling you, nothing good ever comes from giving the government more power over us. Look what has happened in what we have given them so far.

 
2011 stats gleaned from FBI.gov UCR files.

Violent Crimes 1.2M

Homicides/manslaughter 14.6k

Total w/firearms 8k..--->........Handguns 6k..........Rifles 323.....Shotgun 356.......Knives 1.2k.....Blunt Obj. 496.....Hands, Fist, Feet 728

Assaults 750k

Robbery 350k

Rape 83k

Homicides committed by age group 17-34 6k percentage basically equal between black/white

6k total includes male/female

Not related to violent crime but a serious problem non the less is per CDC 2010 Suicides 38k

Background/NICS checks for firearm purchases denied 1998-2010

1 Convicted of a crime punishable by more than one year or a

misdemeanor punishable by more than two years.................................572,523 58.65%

2 Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence Conviction...........................100,761 10.32%

3 Fugitive from Justice................................................................................92,510 9.48%

4 Unlawful User/Addicted to a Controlled Substance..................................79,993 8.19%

5 Protection/Restraining Order for Domestic Violence................................42,055 4.31%

6 State Prohibitor........................................................................................41,801 4.28%

7 Under Indictment/Information....................................................................18,663 1.91%

8 Illegal/Unlawful Alien..................................................................................11,829 1.21%

9 Adjudicated Mental Health..........................................................................9,877 1.01%

10 Federally Denied Persons File,.................................................................5,463 0.56%

11 Dishonorable Discharge...............................................................................694 0.07%

12 Renounced U.S. Citizenship...........................................................................56 0.01%

Total Federal Denials.....................................................................................976,225

 
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14k of those homicides were caused by weapons that "should be banned".

This is going to take more than just a simple one patch to fix the hole. There are a combination of problems that need to be fixed if we are to curb gun violence.

 
You understand that 14k was total homicides. 8k with firearms

so we ban hands, feet and fists?? jus messin' whichu

Nothing humorous about homicides except look at the glaring disparity between handguns and rifles/shotguns 6.2k to 700.

Handguns...........Question is: What is the favorite weapon of certain factions of the population to commit a homicide?

Handguns...........Question is: What is the favorite weapon of rawhide to use as personal defense and for just shootin' paper on occasion? (targets)

 
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Bye Bye Big XII said:
A little off topic, but do you guys agree with some states allowing teachers to carry a gun?
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In school? No.

They don't have the training necessary to make the appropriate decisions.

Also a little off topic . . . but I am rather amused that some of the same political actors who decry our public educators as incompetent/overpaid/etc. are now saying that those same educators should carry firearms into our schools. It's curious.

 
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