Gun Control

[carlfense]

I am sure she knows by now that the Sandy Creek shooter didn't use a "Assault weapon" ; they were "Assault Pistols".

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57559416/assault-rifle-used-during-sandy-hook-massacre/

Most of the victims were shot with the Bushmaster.

I don't care about thumbhole stocks too much, being a lefty

I don't really care much about any of the stocks. It's purely a cosmetic issue. Black guns with pistol grips apparently look scary to people who don't know much about guns.

If they should be worried about anything it's magazine capacity . . . not stocks, bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, etc.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

You think a psycho would think twice about walking into a school with a military member or an armed officer? This is why you don't see shootings where guns are allowed. (IE Police Stations, Shooting Ranges, Court Houses, Military Base)

Like Fort Hood? or the Jefferson County Courthouse in Texas? or the Police Station in Detroit in November? or Millard South High in Omaha?

Fort Hood: This was an Army Major inside the compound who did this. Not some psycho from the streets. 13 Dead, but something like this would happen only if it was by someone inside, and not a normal civilian. Military shootings are not even close to being common. One incident makes it more liable?

Jefferson County Courthouse: 1 Dead, happened outside the Courthouse, not in.

Police Station in Detroit: Only dead person was the suspect, with one injured officer.

What does the Millard South High School Shooting have to do with anything I said? There was no officer at the school. Didn't they get an armed officer after this incident?

Incidents are going to happen anywhere and everywhere, despite what protection is there, but its less likely going to happen if someone knows its guarded by someone who is armed.

 

[carlfense]

Fort Hood: This was an Army Major inside the compound who did this. Not some psycho from the streets. 13 Dead, but something like this would happen only if it was by someone inside, and not a normal civilian.

It was a crazy Army Major . . . not a crazy civillian? :lol:

I'm not sure how that could even conceivably change your analysis.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

Fort Hood: This was an Army Major inside the compound who did this. Not some psycho from the streets. 13 Dead, but something like this would happen only if it was by someone inside, and not a normal civilian.

It was a crazy Army Major . . . not a crazy civillian? :lol:

I'm not sure how that could even conceivably change your analysis.

Because military base shootings are common? There is a reason they aren't.

 

[gobiggergoredder]

Incidents are going to happen anywhere and everywhere, despite what protection is there, but its less likely going to happen if someone knows its guarded by someone who is armed.

You could have stopped there. You figure out who is going to pay for it then you can toss out the idea.

 

[gobiggergoredder]

Because military base shootings are common? There is a reason they aren't.

There are 100K public schools in America. It goes to 130K when you add private. I'm not by any means trying to minimize these tragedies, but I don't see how they could be that much more common than the court house, police station, military base example you already provided from a statistical standpoint.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

Incidents are going to happen anywhere and everywhere, despite what protection is there, but its less likely going to happen if someone knows its guarded by someone who is armed.

You could have stopped there. You figure out who is going to pay for it then you can toss out the idea.

Who is going to pay for protection in schools? The same people who waste money on useless security guards who can't protect anyone anymore than a faculty member.

Its funny how you read and bold/italic part of my sentence and not the rest. Just nitpick what someone says rather than looking at the whole picture.

Because military base shootings are common? There is a reason they aren't.

There are 100K public schools in America. It goes to 130K when you add private. I'm not by any means trying to minimize these tragedies, but I don't see how they could be that much more common than the court house, police station, military base example you already provided from a statistical standpoint.

If there was a statistic out there, I am sure it would prove there have been more deaths/shootings at schools than there have been at police stations, military bases and courthouses.

 

[carlfense]

Fort Hood: This was an Army Major inside the compound who did this. Not some psycho from the streets. 13 Dead, but something like this would happen only if it was by someone inside, and not a normal civilian.

It was a crazy Army Major . . . not a crazy civillian? :lol:

I'm not sure how that could even conceivably change your analysis.

Because military base shootings are common? There is a reason they aren't.

Your argument is getting weaker.

Apparently you're arguing that school shootings are common (they aren't) because there aren't armed guards at schools but military shootings are rare (they are) despite the armed guards.

You might want to re-think this.

 

[carlfense]

If there was a statistic out there, I am sure it would prove there have been more deaths/shootings at schools than there have been at police stations, military bases and courthouses.

So you don't know the facts but you're sure that they would support your gut feelings? :hmmph

 

[HuskerNationNick]

Police Station Shooting

Ankeny- drive by, never entered the building- No deaths

Detroit- 1 dead, it was the suspect.

I am sure there are a few more, but only ones I was able to find

Military Base shootings:

Fort Hood: 13 dead.

Fort Bragg: 1 dead.

Only other ones I find are outside the US.

Courthouse shootings:

Tyler Courthouse Shooting: 2 Dead. Inside the courthouse

Jefferson County Shooting: 1 Dead, happened outside the courthouse

Montesano, WA Courthouse: No deaths

Shooting Ranges:

Only act of crime was a suicide.

School Shootings:

University of Iowa: 5 Killed, 1 injured

Lindhurst High School: 4 Killed, 10 injured

Heath High School: 3 Killed, 5 injured

Westside Middle School: 5 Killed, 10 injured

Thurston High School: 2 Killed, 25 Injured

Columbine High School: 13 Killed, 26 injured

Red Lake Senior High School: 7 Dead, 5 injured

Barton Township, PA, Schoolhouse: 5 Dead, 5 injured

Virginia Tech: 33 Killed

Northern Illinois University: 5 Killed, 21 injured

Chardon High School: 3 Killed, 2 injured

Oikos University: 7 Killed, 3 injured

Jonesboro Ark: 5 Dead, 9 injured

Springfield OR: 2 Dead, 22 injured

University of Arizona: 3 Dead

Sandy Hook Elementary: 26 Dead

School shootings aren't common? These school shootings are the only ones who have deaths. There are many more out there where people were fortunate enough to live. Like the Millard South High Shooting.

 

[carlfense]

I am sure there are a few more, but only ones I was able to find

You didn't look too hard . . . did you? :lol:

Selection bias is hard at work. Also . . . it sure doesn't look like you're excluding the schools that had armed guards at the time of the shootings. Those don't support your argument . . . such as it is.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

I am sure there are a few more, but only ones I was able to find

You didn't look too hard . . . did you? :lol:

Selection bias is hard at work. Also . . . it sure doesn't look like you're excluding the schools that had armed guards at the time of the shootings. Those don't support your argument . . . such as it is.

Since you know it all, please enlighten me on which schools had armed guards, because I am sure none of them did, as only one of them had an unarmed security officer killed.

Also, since you don't think I looked very hard, what shootings at police stations, courthouses, shooting ranges and military bases am I missing? I will be waiting.

There have been more school shootings and deaths than at any of the previous places I have stated.

 

[carlfense]

Since you know it all, please enlighten me on which schools had armed guards, because I am sure none of them did, as only one of them had an unarmed security officer killed.

I've never said that I know it all. That said, your bolded statement does convince me that you don't know much about this topic.

You're sure, eh? :lol:

It looks even worse considering that arguably the highest profile shooting in your list did have an armed guard.

You've certainly confirmed this:

So you don't know the facts but you're sure that they would support your gut feelings? :hmmph

Also, since you don't think I looked very hard, what shootings at police stations, courthouses, shooting ranges and military bases am I missing? I will be waiting.

Sorry Nick. You've already shown that you're more than willing to make assumptions and statements without troubling yourself with learning the facts. Any help that I could offer you would surely be wasted.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

Since you know it all, please enlighten me on which schools had armed guards, because I am sure none of them did, as only one of them had an unarmed security officer killed.

I've never said that I know it all. That said, your bolded statement does convince me that you don't know much about this topic.

You're sure, eh? :lol:

It looks even worse considering that arguably the highest profile shooting in your list did have an armed guard.

VT had an armed guard? Columbine? Sandy Hook? Which one?

You sit here and tell me I don't know much about the topic, but all your doing is questioning what I am saying, rather than having proven statements of your own. Do you know much about this topic at all?

I have no problem admitting I am wrong about something. I am not going to say I am wrong about something just because you say its wrong. Show me evidence.

 

[tschu]

There is just zero reason for anyone to own a semiautomatic gun or any sort of assault rifle, period. I have yet to see a legitmate argument besides "coyotes can be hard to hit." (Which is not a legitimate argument.)

We have to decide just how far we want to go. I imagine that at some point in the future maybe many decades from now, society will be at a point where guns will be outlawed. But that is not now. I think that only allowing hunting rifles/shotguns and small handguns seems fair. You get to own a gun for recreation or protection, and the totally unnecessary killing agents will be much less accessible.

To everyone talking about giving teachers guns - come on. Be realistic. Anyone wanting to give elementary school teachers guns two weeks ago would be ridiculed beyond belief. If a large high school wants to have a couple of armed guards or what-have-you, fine. But the "lets give every teacher a .9mm that'll solve everything" logic is seriously misguided. YOU ARE WILLINGLY BRINGING A GUN INTO A SCHOOL. Teachers can also be crazy, and kids know how to get access to things they shouldn't have access to. (Do you guys remember high school at all?) It is a pretty silly idea.