How far Left, could a Leftist Left, if a Leftist could Left, Left.

StPaulHusker said:
There is a lot more about Trump that makes him a terrible leader.

Right now, AOC is not in a position for me to determine if she is good or not because she holds no leadership positions yet.  And I don't know that i like ALL her policies.  But I am certainly listening to the 70% marginal tax rate and ideas on climate change.
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Pardon me if I took your "real leader" label as meaning she is a great leader.

 
StPaulHusker said:
I think Red Denver used the term "real".  Which compared to some in Congress, she is.  But here is how I would rank the terms

1.  Great-She is not

2.  Real-She might be

3. Leader-She is
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She might be one day. It seems like the media and the right wingers will keep her relevant enough to run for president in the near future. It is nice having some young blood in Congress for a change... she just needs to think before opening her mouth. That should come with maturity (I’m not comparing her to Trump with that last comment btw). 

 
Maybe we should try to define leader.

Winning an election doesn’t mean you’re a leader. It just means you talk a good talk, for some it means you’re more attractive than the other candidates, for some it means you have more charisma.

Trump is a leader because he’s gotten a bunch of important congressmen to not vote against him and to vote with him.

With AOC it’s more debatable.

 
Moiraine said:
Maybe we should try to define leader.

Winning an election doesn’t mean you’re a leader. It just means you talk a good talk, for some it means you’re more attractive than the other candidates, for some it means you have more charisma.

Trump is a leader because he’s gotten a bunch of important congressmen to not vote against him and to vote with him.

With AOC it’s more debatable.
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I think getting elected by your constituents to be their voice is the very definition of being a leader.  Where definition comes to play is whether they are effective, good, bad, etc.  Just one mans opinion 

 
StPaulHusker said:
I think getting elected by your constituents to be their voice is the very definition of being a leader.  Where definition comes to play is whether they are effective, good, bad, etc.  Just one mans opinion 
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It seems your definition of leader is just that they are in the position where they can decide some things, i.e. policy. So basically anyone who votes on laws or is placed in a position above others is a leader.

I’m talk about the leadership skill. Are they able to get important things accomplished? Are people who work with and for them able to get important things done together under their direction? Are the important people who work with and for them influenced by them? None of these are required to happen before getting elected. Elections are a popularity contest. It stands to reason that people with the leadership skill would be a lot better at getting elected than others, but it’s not a necessity.

 
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Caveman said:
What do you mean by this exactly? Examples? And do you think they will sabotage her efforts?
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Well the weren't crazy about her challenging their #4 in a primary, requiring an outlay of campaign funds they would normally bank, and the moment she won she was getting a lot of "stay in your lane" from the old guard ---aka the Dems who want to keep their jobs, despite dismal election season performances. They have already subtly sabotaged her, but they have to be careful, since she's probably energizing more people than she's driving away. 

Also, she's 28 years old. That confuses them all by itself.

 
Ocasio-Cortez deserves credit for using her high profile to bring attention to income inequality. However, she undermines her message when she plays fast and loose with statistics.
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