How far Left, could a Leftist Left, if a Leftist could Left, Left.

[Mierin]

People are so dumb it hurts.

 I guess we can't have any movies about racism anymore because the actors in them have to portray racists.

 

[ZRod]

Can't fix stupid.

 

[teachercd]

This is what a lot of people want.  They want to be offended, they want to complain, they want to cry "oh my god, that is so offensive" even when it isn't.  This is what happens what you are worried about laughing . 

 

[ColoradoHusk]

Re: Robert Downey Jr. and Tropic Thunder.

The context of the movie is the incredible pretentiousness of Hollywood and it's tone-deaf elite, and Downey plays an Oscar-hunting actor who wants to prove he can play an African American. It's a comedy. A pretty good one. And yeah, the context makes a difference. 

Would that type of role and portrayal be done today, no way. But you are exactly right in that the context of why Downey was in black face for that movie made it super funny back then. It’s not like Downey told the writers, “I want to make this character a black guy, and I’m gonna be in black face the entire movie.”

 

[JJ Husker]

I liked Tropic Thunder and don't give a single sh#t about the WNBA. I won't be apologizing. Possibly even worse than not being outraged over Downey Jr. in blackface, what about Ben Stiller's (IIRC) portrayal of the mentally retarded kid? There's a whole lot of offensive stuff in that movie but the context and comedic value makes it perfectly fine in my book.

 

[Mierin]

I think there's a pretty large group of people who can't grasp the nuance of making fun of a group in a hurtful way just for the sake of making fun of them, and having characters in stories that happen to be racist/sexist or maybe just insensitive. Michael Scott comes to mind. They didn't have Michael Scott in the show because they wanted to make fun of minorities or gays. There are lots of real people that are like him in some way and it was up to the audience to judge him/his actions. Same goes for more extreme examples of that.

They didn't make Johnny the way he was in the Karate Kid show because they wanted to make fun of "whimpy" or "snowflake" kids. They were just portraying a type of character that exists in real life and we judge him how we want.

It's a lot more helpful to have characters like this than for them not to exist.

 

[teachercd]

https://vm.tiktok.com/c6Lvm5/

This is just funny.

 

[BigRedBuster]

I think there's a pretty large group of people who can't grasp the nuance of making fun of a group in a hurtful way just for the sake of making fun of them, and having characters in stories that happen to be racist/sexist or maybe just insensitive. Michael Scott comes to mind. They didn't have Michael Scott in the show because they wanted to make fun of minorities or gays. There are lots of real people that are like him in some way and it was up to the audience to judge him/his actions. Same goes for more extreme examples of that.

They didn't make Johnny the way he was in the Karate Kid show because they wanted to make fun of "whimpy" or "snowflake" kids. They were just portraying a type of character that exists in real life and we judge him how we want.

It's a lot more helpful to have characters like this than for them not to exist.

I'll admit, the whole blackface thing is confusing to me.  I fully understand if I put on blackface and purposely act stereotypically as a black man as a thug, druggy, pimp, unemployed...etc.

However, I don't understand I can be considered racist if I go on halloween dressed up in blackface as maybe Obama, or Denzel Washington.  

It wasn't too long ago, (for the life of me I can't remember who, possibly a SCOTUS nominee?) was crucified in the public because back in college or HS there was a picture taken of him dressed up as a black man in black face.  When I questioned why, I was simply told, you shouldn't ask why, if black people think it's racist, then it's racist.  Just don't do it.

So.....I guess I will never go out on Halloween dressed as a black guy even though the context of what I may be doing it isn't disrespectful....at least in my mind.

I remember Ted Danson used to date Whoopy Goldberg.  There was a lot of crap going around about her dating a white guy.  So...at some public event (maybe an awards show) he showed up in blackface as a joke.  OMG...people were outrage.  Why?

 

[Ulty]

It wasn't too long ago, (for the life of me I can't remember who, possibly a SCOTUS nominee?) was crucified in the public because back in college or HS there was a picture taken of him dressed up as a black man in black face.  When I questioned why, I was simply told, you shouldn't ask why, if black people think it's racist, then it's racist.  Just don't do it.

That's not what you were told. 

OK....but, that's what I'm asking.  Why is simply me putting on black make up so offensive?  I'm assuming it's because black people have been discriminated against and I (as a white male) have no clue what that means.

Well....so have women.  I have a couple times dressed up like a woman on halloween.  Is that the same thing?  If not...why not?

Ultimately I think it has to do with the history of blackface, but I don't know all of the intricacies of why it is offensive. I just know I have heard from many people of color that blackface is offensive so why not just listen to the folks being offended? If they say 'hey thats offensive' why not respect that?

Look, I'm not going to go out next month on Halloween and put black face on because....obviously it's offensive.

But, that doesn't mean we can't have a discussion as to why it's offensive.

OR....why it should ruin someone's career when they did it years ago.  Obviously, there are some in Canada who believe that it should.  I'm assuming that if pictures showed up of Beto or Biden in black face in his teens, it would cause the same uproar.

I think we have answered your last paragraph satisfactorily. It shouldn't ruin someones career in a case like this. 

As for the rest, I'm not entirely educated on the why. Again, it probably has alot to do with the history behind it. Both the cartoonish characteristics and the idea that they could have just gotten black men to act for black roles. I'm sure there is reasoning past that as well that I am not well versed on. 

This all reminds me of Lethal Weapon 5  :laughpound

There is a historical component of blackface - it was traditionally used on stage to portray stereotyped caricatures of black people. Often done in a disrespectful way - a version of black people as presented by racist white folks. It's woven into the contentious fabric of race relations, segregation, and discrimination in this country. 

It might be a bad analogy, but understanding why blackface is racist is similar to understanding why the confederate flag is racist. Sure, you can say it is just a flag that some southern states used in the past and represents "heritage" or whatever, but understanding the deeper context behind how the symbol has been used is an important part of the picture. If that's a crappy analogy let me know.

But not understanding why it is offensive? Yep, that is a bit of privilege because perhaps as a white man in Nebraska (I'm making an assumption here), you haven't really had to deal with the ugly history of it and have not been directly impacted by it. Not necessarily your fault, but that's the way privilege works. 

Comparing it to dressing like a woman, or any other halloween costume is a fair point, though. I think part of it goes into how you are using the "character" and what message you are sending. Every year going back forever, halloween masks of the president's face have been popular. But there is a difference in putting on a Barack Obama mask versus putting on blackface and then acting in some stereotypical manner. Dressing up like a woman on the surface is not necessarily offensive, but obviously there are more tasteful ways to put on a costume than others. I'm thinking that portraying misogynistic stereotypes in costume is more difficult and less obvious than racial stereotypes.

Although, later in that thread, I did say "So don't do it," but I was talking about the historical baggage of blackface. It's an interesting and convoluted conversation, for sure. But respecting the notion that blackface is insensitive and offensive is certainly a component of the discussion.

 

[BigRedBuster]

That's not what you were told. 

















Although, later in that thread, I did say "So don't do it," but I was talking about the historical baggage of blackface. It's an interesting and convoluted conversation, for sure. But respecting the notion that blackface is insensitive and offensive is certainly a component of the discussion.

I fail to see how my post was wrong.  I paraphrased and didn't quote the entire discussion.  But, in essence....the gist is, "you don't understand the view of a black person, so don't do it".

 

[Ulty]

I fail to see how my post was wrong.  I paraphrased and didn't quote the entire discussion.  But, in essence....the gist is, "you don't understand the view of a black person, so don't do it".

That's your takeaway, after I pasted multiple posts that explained that it was based on the historical baggage of blackface?

I know you are more thoughtful than that, and I would never want to imply that "just because" is a valid explanation. So why do you think blackface seen as offensive? 

 

[BigRedBuster]

So why do you think blackface seen as offensive? 

As I expressed above.  I understand why me dressing up as a stereotypical black man as a druggy pimp unemployed thug is offensive to black people.  I don't understand why me dressing up in blackface as Obama would be offensive.

Like was said in the posts above, acting in a movie in blackface needs to be looked at in context.  Why isn't it the same for me dressing up on Halloween?

 

[teachercd]

As I expressed above.  I understand why me dressing up as a stereotypical black man as a druggy pimp unemployed thug is offensive to black people.  I don't understand why me dressing up in blackface as Obama would be offensive.

Like was said in the posts above, acting in a movie in blackface needs to be looked at in context.  Why isn't it the same for me dressing up on Halloween?

It isn't offensive...people just WANT to be offended.  

I had friends that dressed up as the 86 Celtics...one of them was Dennis Johnson, (super light) black face with freckles...all of them had the uniforms too...not offensive   If anything it was just a bad a$$ Halloween costume.  

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Remember, one of the purposes of blackface was to allow theater and vaudeville and movies to portray black characters without having to employ an actual black.

Another way to look at it is to imagine a New York City socialite deciding to play a Nebraskan. How do you think they'd pull that off and what are the chances it wouldn't feel insulting?

Tropic Thunder was still funny. And I almost forgot Ben Stiller played "Simple Jack" in the same movie.

 

[BigRedBuster]

That's your takeaway, after I pasted multiple posts that explained that it was based on the historical baggage of blackface?

I know you are more thoughtful than that, and I would never want to imply that "just because" is a valid explanation. So why do you think blackface seen as offensive? 

OK...going back to the link you provided, this is the article I originally asked about.


So, pertaining to the conversation above about implying that the context of blackface is important.  Now....why is a picture of Trudeau simply in blackface seemingly dressed up as Aladdin offensive when an actor doing it in a comedy movie isn't?