I serve an amazing God

[zoogs]

Yes, that's right. Starting with the quark epoch is where science is more clear, and that's somewhere between .000000000001 and .000001 seconds after the Big Bang. Much before that there's a good deal of murkiness.

 

[Excel]

So if you prayed for something and didn't get it does that disprove the existence of God?

God isn't some kind of phone it in handyman, he doesn't answer our every prayer or whim and that kind of thinking is bound to lead to disappointment and frustration. I don't know how God works but I'm fairly sure its not like that.

Matthew 5:45 "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."

 

[bennychico11]

God isn't some kind of phone it in handyman, he doesn't answer our every prayer or whim and that kind of thinking is bound to lead to disappointment and frustration. I don't know how God works but I'm fairly sure its not like that.

If you don't know how your god works...then don't pretend to assume ANYTHING about that god. Including that you know how he doesn't work. Don't assume that he created the universe. Don't assume he loves you. Don't assume he answers any prayers. Don't assume he is interested in your sex life. Don't assume he cares what your morals are. And don't even assume that he exists!

You can't say "that's not how god works"....and then in the next sentence say "no one really knows how god works." It's like the original poster saying, "I don't know much about advanced anatomy or advanced medical sciences...but there's no other explanation than god healed me!"

 

[Excel]

God isn't some kind of phone it in handyman, he doesn't answer our every prayer or whim and that kind of thinking is bound to lead to disappointment and frustration. I don't know how God works but I'm fairly sure its not like that.

If you don't know how your god works...then don't pretend to assume ANYTHING about that god. Including that you know how he doesn't work. Don't assume that he created the universe. Don't assume he loves you. Don't assume he answers any prayers. Don't assume he is interested in your sex life. Don't assume he cares what your morals are. And don't even assume that he exists!

You can't say "that's not how god works"....and then in the next sentence say "no one really knows how god works." It's like the original poster saying, "I don't know much about advanced anatomy or advanced medical sciences...so there's no other explanation than god healed me!"

I had a feeling someone would make that point but I most certainly can say that. Based on my interpretation of what the Bible says, God does not go about answering prayers and intervening in the average man's everyday life at different points in his day...that does not mean that I know how God works, it simply means that I know that he doesn't work in a particular way.

I don't understand how to build an internal combustion engine but I'm pretty sure my truck doesn't run on nuclear fuel rods.

I don't understand all of x but from the few small things I do understand about x I can rule out a theorized xy.

 

[zoogs]

(There is no such thing as an infinite number in reality - arguments that the universe is infinite or that it came from something -- which must have been infinite or come from something else, still the same problem -- just can't hold up)

Some simple "it doesn't make sense" statements don't really hold up as evidence. Just objective conclusions you may draw from what we know.

 

[MLB 51]

If the universe isn't infinite then what happens when you reach the outter most point.

 

[Landlord]

(There is no such thing as an infinite number in reality - arguments that the universe is infinite or that it came from something -- which must have been infinite or come from something else, still the same problem -- just can't hold up)

Some simple "it doesn't make sense" statements don't really hold up as evidence. Just objective conclusions you may draw from what we know.

Of course you are right. I didn't mean to imply that it was in itself evidence, but that the simple statement I gave has an incredible amount of information surrounding it that I believe to be valid evidence, but for the sake of brevity I was pretty brief.

 

[zoogs]

I'm interested in hearing more about that, Landlord. From what you've described, these all appear to be thought exercises and not actual evidence. Or "there exists [order/beauty/etc], therefore _____." I still feel like there is good reason that these arguments do not stand on the same level of criteria used for scientific knowledge, and while they may be philosophically significant, they still cannot truly be described as actual evidence.

Of course it does not mean they can't be reasons for choosing to believe in something. It is just a more subjective area, no?

 

[carlfense]

FWIW Mrs. carlfense said that gas is the most likely cause.

 

[bennychico11]

I had a feeling someone would make that point but I most certainly can say that. Based on my interpretation of what the Bible says, God does not go about answering prayers and intervening in the average man's everyday life at different points in his day...that does not mean that I know how God works, it simply means that I know that he doesn't work in a particular way.

So all the verses in the bible of him stating that if you ask in prayer, it shall be given are wrong? http://www.prayingsc...rpromises.shtml

If he doesn't act that way...then the OP is incorrect in assuming god helped him. Then it goes to question, what prayers does he answer? Only those of non-average men? Only on special occasions like when Tebow is in trouble during a game?? Why not even more important occasions like when someone is suffering from a terrible illness? Why not all the prayers mega churches tell their congregation to pray for on Sundays..."help for the innocent children suffering in Africa." If it's not everyday prayers he answers...then tell me what non-everyday prayers are?

I don't understand how to build an internal combustion engine but I'm pretty sure my truck doesn't run on nuclear fuel rods.

you only know that from current testable, verifiable, repeatable knowledge of car engines. A mechanic can show you the inner workings of a car to show you that it doesn't contain fuel rods.

The inner workings of a god are a little harder to give evidence for

I don't understand all of x but from the few small things I do understand about x I can rule out a theorized xy.

Ironically...the same can be said about the universe. I don't understand all of the universe, but from the few small things we do know about it, I can rule out a theorized god because none of the universe we've seen so far seems to contain magic in it.

 

[Excel]

I had a feeling someone would make that point but I most certainly can say that. Based on my interpretation of what the Bible says, God does not go about answering prayers and intervening in the average man's everyday life at different points in his day...that does not mean that I know how God works, it simply means that I know that he doesn't work in a particular way.

So all the verses in the bible of him stating that if you ask in prayer, it shall be given are wrong? http://www.prayingsc...rpromises.shtml

If he doesn't act that way...then the OP is incorrect in assuming god helped him. Then it goes to question, what prayers does he answer? Only those of non-average men? Only on special occasions like when Tebow is in trouble during a game?? Why not even more important occasions like when someone is suffering from a terrible illness? Why not all the prayers mega churches tell their congregation to pray for on Sundays..."help for the innocent children suffering in Africa." If it's not everyday prayers he answers...then tell me what non-everyday prayers are?

I don't understand how to build an internal combustion engine but I'm pretty sure my truck doesn't run on nuclear fuel rods.

you only know that from current testable, verifiable, repeatable knowledge of car engines. A mechanic can show you the inner workings of a car to show you that it doesn't contain fuel rods.

The inner workings of a god are a little harder to give evidence for

I don't understand all of x but from the few small things I do understand about x I can rule out a theorized xy.

Ironically...the same can be said about the universe. I don't understand all of the universe, but from the few small things we do know about it, I can rule out a theorized god because none of the universe we've seen so far seems to contain magic in it.

Since you're now going to scripture then I'll grant to you that the Bible, and most importantly Jesus, does indeed say that a believer's prayers will be answered but given that Jesus gives his followers a very specific prayer to pray addressing your post is quite easy.

These two are all I need...

1. Luke 11:1-13; And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, "When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil."

2. Luke 4:12 "It has been said, 'You must not tempt the Lord your God.'"

So if you follow Christ you're going to pray the Lord's Prayer stay focused on that, praying that your stomach ache goes away, that you can pay your power bill or for your team to win the Super Bowl is going about it all wrong.

 

[zoogs]

Based on my interpretation of what the Bible says, God does not go about answering prayers and intervening in the average man's everyday life at different points in his day...that does not mean that I know how God works, it simply means that I know that he doesn't work in a particular way.

I don't understand how to build an internal combustion engine but I'm pretty sure my truck doesn't run on nuclear fuel rods.

I don't understand all of x but from the few small things I do understand about x I can rule out a theorized xy.

I think this is well said, and a sensible interpretation. I suppose you could never truly know that he doesn't work in this way, but the idea that God is there to answer individual specific prayers and thereby grant the whims of the worthy ... seems to be a relic for more ancient times, like the Frankish king Clovis, a pagan with a Christian wife who (we are told) prayed for victory in battle when all seemed lost, to have the tides later turned. (He subsequently converted to Christianity). Good thing God hated those darn Alemanni.

 

[Enhance]

] I had a feeling someone would make that point but I most certainly can say that. Based on my interpretation of what the Bible says, God does not go about answering prayers and intervening in the average man's everyday life at different points in his day...that does not mean that I know how God works, it simply means that I know that he doesn't work in a particular way.[/sub]

I like this, because it's something I talked about in the first response to this thread. How can a God pick and choose between who to answer and who to not? How can he cure OP's side pain but let millions die from cancer, for example?

I think this is a very reasonable way to approach a God. It's interesting, however, that we have a similar mind set, but arrive at two different conclusions. I believe a "God" exists, just not one that sent his son to die for our sins, has the ability to intervene in our lives, etc. I only think there's a higher power that started the universe and brought us into being. Therefore, it has no real affect on any of our lives. It just exists all around us, all the time.

 

[Enhance]

That arrogance is one of the things that turns me off to religion. The idea that we have to have a "higher purpose" than other animals. Just because we developed better cognative abilities through evolution is no good reason to believe we're involved in some sort of divinity.

This is exactly what I was talking about, specifically, in reference to our purpose in life. I can't justify us having a greater purpose in the world other than the most basic - continue our species. We're no different than animals outside of the obvious physical appearances and higher brain functions. Our ability to think led to our attempts to explain the world around us. A deer can't do that, therefore, it doesn't see a higher purpose for itself. It just exists, and this is what I feel humanity ultimately does. We just exist, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't see as being more special than anything else, really. We just got lucky on the evolutionary path.

 

[Excel]

] I had a feeling someone would make that point but I most certainly can say that. Based on my interpretation of what the Bible says, God does not go about answering prayers and intervening in the average man's everyday life at different points in his day...that does not mean that I know how God works, it simply means that I know that he doesn't work in a particular way.[/sub]

I like this, because it's something I talked about in the first response to this thread. How can a God pick and choose between who to answer and who to not? How can he cure OP's side pain but let millions die from cancer, for example?

I think this is a very reasonable way to approach a God. It's interesting, however, that we have a similar mind set, but arrive at two different conclusions. I believe a "God" exists, just not one that sent his son to die for our sins, has the ability to intervene in our lives, etc. I only think there's a higher power that started the universe and brought us into being. Therefore, it has no real affect on any of our lives. It just exists all around us, all the time.

We may have come to two different places in our understanding of God but my path has had (and will have) many stops and one of them was where you're at now. Taking a broad look at things and looking at the more scientific narrative it all checks out for me. I mean that both the theories of evolution and the Big Bang make sense, or intelligent people that would know tell me as much, the only problem is the step in between...

1. The Big Bang was the first step in the process that led to the formation of the Universe we know today. ✔

2. ??????? Inanimate naturally occurring objects...rocks... suddenly spring to life? X

3. Evolution led to the various forms of life we see today on Earth. ✔

...and step two is why I believe there must be a God. I just don't believe that acid, sitting in a deep ocean volcanic water vent gets struck by lightning and comes to life....

Sorry for going off on a tangent but maybe one of our more open minded and knowledgeable HB posters can enlighten me on to the currently accepted scientific theory for the origin of life...