Racism - It's a real thing.

B.B. Hemingway said:
You're never going to completely eliminate tribalism on an individual level. Some sort of tribalism, while as insignificant to most of us as it's ever been, is always going to be relevant. And that's not exclusive to white people. You don't think black business owners might lean towards hiring people that look like them? That think like they do? You don't think black folks might give the benefit of the doubt to someone that looks like them, moreso than they would their white counterpart? The ignorance comes in thinking that you're ever going to completely eliminate that sort of tribalism, and thinking that this particular brand of benign tribalism is holding back an entire race of people.
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This is an interesting comment when potential black business owners have a harder time getting credit to start the business so they could potentially hire people that look like them.

https://www.blackenterprise.com/black-business-owners-with-750-credit-scores-are-rejected-for-loans/?test=prebid

 
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Ulty said:
Do you actually believe that the injustices against black people in the past no longer have any bearing on black people today?  Do you think it is all a level playing field now? Why do you think this?
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Do you think each individual regardless of race has an opportunity to succeed in this country? We have more of a rich vs poor dilemma in our country currently than we do a race one. But the media, politicians don't like to talk about that as they are in bed with the money train. 

 
Hedley Lamarr said:
Do you think each individual regardless of race has an opportunity to succeed in this country? We have more of a rich vs poor dilemma in our country currently than we do a race one. But the media, politicians don't like to talk about that as they are in bed with the money train. 
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You really think the media doesn't talk about income disparity? :blink:

 
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BigRedBuster said:
So, when shown this, your first reaction is...sure, but its not about racism.
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It could be, but it's just as weird for you to assume that it's always racism. In the article you edited back into your post, it gave an example of one couple. There are so many variables when getting a loan, it's laughable to take that at face value. First, your credit score only gets you in the door.... $200,000 in annual profits.... Profits aren't necessarily money made. Was it their gross, or net? How much debt do they currently have? Within in the business and personally? Is that $200,000 (gross or net) a one year thing? Did they do $200,000 last year? For the last three years? Five? Or did they make that big jump in that year alone? ALL of those things matter lenders. And, yes, I'm going to assume all those questions matter much more than what the color of their skin is. I don't remember that question being on the loan applications. I own a couple small businesses, and have been told no more times than yes when I went to try and get business loans, and I'm of Scandinavian descent, also known as, as white as they come.

 
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So, on the "getting a loan" thing.

How does anyone know your color or gender or anything about you?  I mean, I just did a refi and it was all online, there was nothing about me personally that I had to offer up, and any personal thing that was asked you could just select "I prefer not to say".  I think for gender I put down "non-binary".  I took out a car loan the other day, same thing.  From a new place that I have never even walked into.  Money was in my account in about 2 hours.

With that said, Centris did make me load up a picture of my drivers license.  And they also denied me a loan...but the places that did not ask for a picture ID gave me the loans.  f#&% YOU CENTRIS 

Do people actually walk into banks and sit down with loan officers anymore? 

 
Hedley Lamarr said:
Do you think each individual regardless of race has an opportunity to succeed in this country?
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Does every individual have an opportunity to succeed? Of course. Does everyone have the same opportunities to succeed? No they don't.

Do different people face different circumstances based on historical discrimination and the still-existing by-products of those historical inequities, which results in some people starting with advantages and others starting with disadvantages? Undoubtedly. Have many of those circumstances been based on upon race? Yes!

Hedley Lamarr said:
We have more of a rich vs poor dilemma in our country currently than we do a race one.
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It's both. Minimizing or ignoring the racial divides in this country does nothing to help the SES divides, and the issues are frequently intertwined. 

 
RedDenver said:
"Getting equally crazy on both sides" is an attempt to minimize/distract from government laws that ban books.

If you don't want to be seen as defending government book bans, then maybe don't jump in and attempt to redirect to something else. 
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Looks like the conversation was successful derailed, beginning with a non sequiter about pronouns, and now we are talking about credit scores. 

I some of us aren't worried that someone actually proposed a law that bars educational discussions that include bias, white supremacy, equity, and multiculturalism...and the bill actually passed in a house vote? This is beyond horrific.

 
The Lancet: More than half of police killings in USA are unreported and Black Americans are most likely to experience fatal police violence


More than 55% of deaths from police violence in the USA from 1980-2018 were misclassified or unreported in official vital statistics reports according to a new study in The Lancet. The highest rate of deaths from police violence occurred for Black Americans, who were estimated to be 3.5 times more likely to experience fatal police violence than white Americans.

Researchers estimate that the US National Vital Statistics System (NVSS), the government system that collates all death certificates in the USA, failed to accurately classify and report more than 17,000 deaths as being caused by police violence during the 40-year study period.

“Recent high-profile police killings of Black people have drawn worldwide attention to this urgent public health crisis, but the magnitude of this problem can’t be fully understood without reliable data. Inaccurately reporting or misclassifying these deaths further obscures the larger issue of systemic racism that is embedded in many US institutions, including law enforcement. Currently, the same government responsible for this violence is also responsible for reporting on it. Open-sourced data is a more reliable and comprehensive resource to help inform policies that can prevent police violence and save lives,” says co-lead author Fablina Sharara of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME), University of Washington School of Medicine, USA. [1]

 
BigRedBuster said:
Did someone say…..banning books?
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I mean, from your own article.  You must not have read it 
 

Less than three weeks after the students began their campaign, the board met again, on Sept. 20, and temporarily lifted the freeze. The board said that its November 2020 vote was not intended to be a ban, but rather an effort to give a curriculum committee time to review the materials.

The board noted that none of the listed books had been removed from school libraries and that teachers who had already been using the materials were not affected.


 

Jane Johnson, the president of the school board, read aloud from a statement that said that while the board recognized the importance of diversity, it was concerned about materials that “may lean more toward indoctrination rather than age-appropriate academic content.”

 
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