Recruiting a great quarterback

[Count 'Bility]

Everyone keeps talking about getting a QB coach. Tim Beck is the QB coach and Offensive Coordinator. I think that's the way it's done everywhere. I can't think of any other program that has a dedicated QB coach that is not also coaching something else, and most often it's the OC. Is Beck a good QB coach I think is the question.

For those who don't know, coaching positions are limited by the NCAA. NU can't just go hire another coach without getting rid of an existing coach. TE coach Cotton seems to be everybody's nominee for replacement, but he's more than TE coach: Associate Head Coach/Run Game Coordinator/Tight Ends/Offensive Line.

How much experience does Beck have as a division 1 QB coach? How about ganz? We literally have 2 guys who have zero experience as QB coaches coaching the most vital position in football.
Look up and down our staff and you see a substantial amount of rookies or guys that hung out at lower levels for far to long because they weren't good enough for the big leagues

If NU wants to compete at all nationally we have to have a top 10 staff first and foremost. We obviously aren't going to out recruit many southern schools so we better be willing to out coach them

I agree with you. I don't believe Beck played QB though I've been unable to find what position he did play in college. Now, that's not necessarily a requirement, and I also think years of experience teaching the position can substitute for playing experience. But it seems our QBs are not getting the type of developmental position coaching they need.

It could be that the players themselves are just not able to develop more or faster. Prior to last year, the sample size consists of Taylor Martinez who, I think we can all agree, was a special case. Armstrong is still only a sophomore with what- 13 games under his belt? It could be it's too early to tell if Armstrong will eventually develop into more of a complete QB and whether Beck's teaching of the position will be vindicated.

He is in his 3rd year with the program

But as a true freshman was on the scout team, studying and executing everyone else's offense.

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

Everyone keeps talking about getting a QB coach. Tim Beck is the QB coach and Offensive Coordinator. I think that's the way it's done everywhere. I can't think of any other program that has a dedicated QB coach that is not also coaching something else, and most often it's the OC. Is Beck a good QB coach I think is the question.

For those who don't know, coaching positions are limited by the NCAA. NU can't just go hire another coach without getting rid of an existing coach. TE coach Cotton seems to be everybody's nominee for replacement, but he's more than TE coach: Associate Head Coach/Run Game Coordinator/Tight Ends/Offensive Line.

How much experience does Beck have as a division 1 QB coach? How about ganz? We literally have 2 guys who have zero experience as QB coaches coaching the most vital position in football.
Look up and down our staff and you see a substantial amount of rookies or guys that hung out at lower levels for far to long because they weren't good enough for the big leagues

If NU wants to compete at all nationally we have to have a top 10 staff first and foremost. We obviously aren't going to out recruit many southern schools so we better be willing to out coach them

I agree with you. I don't believe Beck played QB though I've been unable to find what position he did play in college. Now, that's not necessarily a requirement, and I also think years of experience teaching the position can substitute for playing experience. But it seems our QBs are not getting the type of developmental position coaching they need.

It could be that the players themselves are just not able to develop more or faster. Prior to last year, the sample size consists of Taylor Martinez who, I think we can all agree, was a special case. Armstrong is still only a sophomore with what- 13 games under his belt? It could be it's too early to tell if Armstrong will eventually develop into more of a complete QB and whether Beck's teaching of the position will be vindicated.

He is in his 3rd year with the program

But as a true freshman was on the scout team, studying and executing everyone else's offense.

His mechanics and fundamentals should of been worked on

 

[Danny Bateman]

Everyone keeps talking about getting a QB coach. Tim Beck is the QB coach and Offensive Coordinator. I think that's the way it's done everywhere. I can't think of any other program that has a dedicated QB coach that is not also coaching something else, and most often it's the OC. Is Beck a good QB coach I think is the question.

For those who don't know, coaching positions are limited by the NCAA. NU can't just go hire another coach without getting rid of an existing coach. TE coach Cotton seems to be everybody's nominee for replacement, but he's more than TE coach: Associate Head Coach/Run Game Coordinator/Tight Ends/Offensive Line.

How much experience does Beck have as a division 1 QB coach? How about ganz? We literally have 2 guys who have zero experience as QB coaches coaching the most vital position in football.

Look up and down our staff and you see a substantial amount of rookies or guys that hung out at lower levels for far to long because they weren't good enough for the big leagues

If NU wants to compete at all nationally we have to have a top 10 staff first and foremost. We obviously aren't going to out recruit many southern schools so we better be willing to out coach them

well, as we speak, Ganz and Beck have 3+ years experience each.

Why are we still sitting around complaining about TA's mechanics if he's also been a part of the team those 3 years?

Why didn't TMart's mechanics improve until his JR year despite Ganz and Beck both being there as well? Extensive work with Calhoun.

If that's our sample size, neither Ganz nor Beck are up to snuff for QB development.

 

[Count 'Bility]

His mechanics and fundamentals should of been worked on

Quarterbacks and coaches dont have time to go over mechanics. That stuff's done on their own in summers. That's why Martinez was visiting calhoun two summers in a row. It's while most all qbs visit some sort of guru in their offseasons. It's not the NFL. College staffs outside of the strength coach only have so many hours with their players throughout the year. the more time they spend dickin around with footwork and such, the less time they have to perfect their plays.

I think Tommy's mechanics and fundamentals are fine. It's mental to me at this point. Making wrong reads. Gettin a little carried away with forcing things. Just simply making bad throws. I dont think any of that is fundamental. it's mental.

Of course that opinion could be skewed when we're used to what we've seen for 3 previous years.

 

[Danny Bateman]

His mechanics and fundamentals should of been worked on

Quarterbacks and coaches dont have time to go over mechanics. That stuff's done on their own in summers. That's why Martinez was visiting calhoun two summers in a row. It's while most all qbs visit some sort of guru in their offseasons. It's not the NFL. College staffs outside of the strength coach only have so many hours with their players throughout the year. the more time they spend dickin around with footwork and such, the less time they have to perfect their plays.

I think Tommy's mechanics and fundamentals are fine. It's mental to me at this point. Making wrong reads. Gettin a little carried away with forcing things. Just simply making bad throws. I dont think any of that is fundamental. it's mental.

Of course that opinion could be skewed when we're used to what we've seen for 3 previous years.

I'm just about to rewatch the game, so I'll examine Armstrong's mechanics a bit. But a lot of people in the know (and on here) seem to think it's an issue. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

But when QB development (specifically, as a passer) has been as big an issue as it has between TM and TA, you damn well better make time. We have no excuse to not pour every resource we can into our offense's most important player. A QB coach could help with his mechanics, help him work on progressing through his reads (another common TA complaint round here), and provide an opinion on offense that is not the same as Beck's. I think that last point may be equally as important.

 

[EmeraldIngot]

His mechanics and fundamentals should of been worked on

Quarterbacks and coaches dont have time to go over mechanics. That stuff's done on their own in summers. That's why Martinez was visiting calhoun two summers in a row. It's while most all qbs visit some sort of guru in their offseasons. It's not the NFL. College staffs outside of the strength coach only have so many hours with their players throughout the year. the more time they spend dickin around with footwork and such, the less time they have to perfect their plays.
I think Tommy's mechanics and fundamentals are fine. It's mental to me at this point. Making wrong reads. Gettin a little carried away with forcing things. Just simply making bad throws. I dont think any of that is fundamental. it's mental.

Of course that opinion could be skewed when we're used to what we've seen for 3 previous years.

I've had this theory for a while. Standardized throwing mechanics don't mean a whole lot, only accuracy, zip (how fast the ball travels through the air), and a quick AND smooth release. Every NFL QBs throwing motion looks a little different, and some even side arm it a little and can still make accurate throws. The throw itself just has to have those three qualities. Granted, standard throwing mechanics can help improve all three of those areas in most QBs, but everyone throws a little differently.
But even if a person has accuracy, zip, and release, it's not a guarantee that they will be a good QB. The reads he has to make, the footwork of both himself and his recievers, and his awareness of the pass rush are much more important in determining if a pass will be complete or not. The reads are different in each system, but follow similar guidelines. The footwork helps the recievers and QB match up their timing, and timing makes it easier to determine reads. Awareness of the pass rush is pretty self explanatory. A QB has to make a quick decision to either step up and buy time, spin out of the pocket to buy time, or throw it away before he gets sacked, all while keeping his eyes on the recievers downfield.

In our passing game, I feel there is a lack of timing between TA and some of his recievers. Particularly Moore. Though it has been getting better. Timing can be fixed through careful repetition with the goal of improving timing. If TA can make a throw at the same time a reciever make the break, the ball will be to the reciever and in his hands well before the D has a chance to jump the route. That's timing. And that's what we need.

 

[Danny Bateman]

His mechanics and fundamentals should of been worked on

Quarterbacks and coaches dont have time to go over mechanics. That stuff's done on their own in summers. That's why Martinez was visiting calhoun two summers in a row. It's while most all qbs visit some sort of guru in their offseasons. It's not the NFL. College staffs outside of the strength coach only have so many hours with their players throughout the year. the more time they spend dickin around with footwork and such, the less time they have to perfect their plays.
I think Tommy's mechanics and fundamentals are fine. It's mental to me at this point. Making wrong reads. Gettin a little carried away with forcing things. Just simply making bad throws. I dont think any of that is fundamental. it's mental.

Of course that opinion could be skewed when we're used to what we've seen for 3 previous years.

I've had this theory for a while. Standardized throwing mechanics don't mean a whole lot, only accuracy, zip (how fast the ball travels through the air), and a quick AND smooth release. Every NFL QBs throwing motion looks a little different, and some even side arm it a little and can still make accurate throws. The throw itself just has to have those three qualities. Granted, standard throwing mechanics can help improve all three of those areas in most QBs, but everyone throws a little differently.
But even if a person has accuracy, zip, and release, it's not a guarantee that they will be a good QB. The reads he has to make, the footwork of both himself and his recievers, and his awareness of the pass rush are much more important in determining if a pass will be complete or not. The reads are different in each system, but follow similar guidelines. The footwork helps the recievers and QB match up their timing, and timing makes it easier to determine reads. Awareness of the pass rush is pretty self explanatory. A QB has to make a quick decision to either step up and buy time, spin out of the pocket to buy time, or throw it away before he gets sacked, all while keeping his eyes on the recievers downfield.

In our passing game, I feel there is a lack of timing between TA and some of his recievers. Particularly Moore. Though it has been getting better. Timing can be fixed through careful repetition with the goal of improving timing. If TA can make a throw at the same time a reciever make the break, the ball will be to the reciever and in his hands well before the D has a chance to jump the route. That's timing. And that's what we need.

Good post, Ingot.

I like your three qualities, and even if TA does ok with slightly funky mechanics, those three qualities are definitely inconsistent with him at this point.

Timing being poor is a by-product of our top receivers going down with injuries. To develop good timing between a QB and WRs, they need reps. The guys TA has gotten reps with all spring and summer and fall are not playing. The only one he's used to is Westy. He's down Carter, Bell, Turner, Burtch, and Reilly at this point. Beyond that, obviously the WRs themselves are not as polished at running routes. But they will each run routes with different timing, and TA needs reps to adjust to that timing.

It'll get better as they work together more.

 

[Mavric]

I'm just about to rewatch the game, so I'll examine Armstrong's mechanics a bit. But a lot of people in the know (and on here) seem to think it's an issue. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

Mechanics - and especially footwork mechanics - are very hard to change because most guys have been doing things a certain way for many years before they get here. Old habits and all.

Honestly, I think Tommy's main issue is he has such a strong arm that he's always been able to get away with sloppy footwork. Kind of like Brett Farve in a way with a great arm and gunslinger mentality he thinks he can always get the ball where he wants. That's not totally a bad thing but at the college level the windows are smaller and there are different routes that he probably didn't throw a lot in HS where it doesn't works as well.

It's been said by the coaches that he has improved in that are but, as is very common, when the heat gets turned up it's easy to revert back to how you've always done it.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I do know that when you call a nice little high-percentage sideline pattern, it's much harder to complete the pass when the QB is both backpedaling and fleeing laterally to avoid several speedy defenders.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I'm just about to rewatch the game, so I'll examine Armstrong's mechanics a bit. But a lot of people in the know (and on here) seem to think it's an issue. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

Mechanics - and especially footwork mechanics - are very hard to change because most guys have been doing things a certain way for many years before they get here. Old habits and all.

Honestly, I think Tommy's main issue is he has such a strong arm that he's always been able to get away with sloppy footwork. Kind of like Brett Farve in a way with a great arm and gunslinger mentality he thinks he can always get the ball where he wants. That's not totally a bad thing but at the college level the windows are smaller and there are different routes that he probably didn't throw a lot in HS where it doesn't works as well.

It's been said by the coaches that he has improved in that are but, as is very common, when the heat gets turned up it's easy to revert back to how you've always done it.

I'm going to borrow from the world of baseball, but there are tons of stories about perfectly good players, high-school and college stars talented enough to make MLB rosters, who got mired in slumps or simply couldn't break out of the minors until someone recognized a small mechanical problem and showed them how to correct it. Pitching. Gripping a bat. Posture. Adjustments of no more than an inch. The difference was considerable and virtually instant. The player just didn't recognize it himself, and no one had mentioned it before.

I mean, Tiger Woods still hires a swing coach.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Tommy had issues the other night with his mechanics. I wont deny that. But the guy was under heavy fire from the defense all night long. he was never able to settle in and fire the ball. Now this is something he's gonna have to get better at. Standing in and not panicking and firing the ball. After the early heavy pressure by sparty, Tommy seemed to get a little happy feet for really the first time since taking over the starting role here last season. But if you look at his technique and mechanics when he's allowed to sit in the pocket and fire the ball, I think it happens to be quite a perdy site. But under the pressure he was under all night saturday, any quarterback is gonna look sloppy at times. So lets not look at that film and use it to deem Tommy's mechanics as a dumpster fire.

 

[Danny Bateman]

I don't think they're a dumpster fire. I think they're not as good as they could be and if he improved them a little bit he'd be a better, more consistent QB.

Look at the difference it made for TMart when he worked with Calhoun. Obviously, TA doesn't need anywhere near the overhaul TM did when he was shotputting the ball, but TMart had some very poor footwork to go along with his wonky throwing motion.

If footwork really is a problem for him at times as Mav alluded to, especially under fire, he's going to revert to poor ways when he's under pressure. We both know he's quite a good quarterback when he's not under fire. When he is, teaching him to not revert to bad footwork could be the difference between having a difference maker at QB every game and just someone who looks great against bad teams and mediocre against good ones.

I'll admit he was under more pressure than we ever want our QB to take, but the best QBs at every level thrive when under assault in the pocket. That's where we've got to try to get TA. I think a QB coach is vital at this point.

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

Tommy hasn't figured out how to move through his progressions in his 3rd year. Martinez didn't figure it out in 5 years.

 

[admo]

I agree with True when he stated that we need to recruit a passer first with the ability to scramble. A player like that in our system would be deadly, think Colt McCoy. He could make all the throws and could also move the chains with his feet if needed. To me, we don't need someone that can take it to the house everytime on zone-reads but someone that can get 5-6 yrds a pop along with making all the throws.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I saw a frustrated Tommy Armstrong. I didn't see any panic.

And come on. The dude was inches away from becoming a legend.

Doesn't mean he can't improve.

But far from a dumpster fire.

Both Armstrong and Abdullah had the same experience facing a much better defense. No one is taking Abdullah to task. Nor should they. But if our Senior Heisman Trophy candidate couldn't deliver, why is our Sophomore quarterback the target of so much blame and second-guessing?