Recruiting a great quarterback

[LumberJackSker]

I know there are limits to how many coaches teams are allowed to have, but what about on the strength and conditioning staff? If we can't fit a qb coach on the regular staff what about having one of the qb gurus like the one martinez worked with on the SC staff to work with qbs

 

[HuskerCarter]

Here's a list of Big Ten players that have played QB in the NFL since the 2000 season. Players in bold have started at least 16 NFL games. Players in italics have played in games but not started. The player in gray italics was drafted and made a roster but hasn't played in a regular season game.

The last Husker to start an NFL game at QB was Turner Gill's backup, Bruce Mathison on October 11, 1987 for the Seahawks.

For decades, we were luckily enough to have a great head coach and offensive coordinator with a unique offensive system that allowed us to have incredible success with a running back/athlete/decision maker at QB. Frazier, Frost and Crouch were all great players but only adequate passers, and that was enough for our system.

Taylor Martinez was a similar case, although he didn't have many of the advantages that the '90s teams had, and he was never quite the same after his injury. He was perhaps a slightly better passer than those guys, but he still had significant issues and inconsistencies with his passing.

Since we aren't going to have consistent top ten recruiting classes, I think we will need a truly great dual-threat QB if we ever want to make the playoffs.

When was the last time we had a quarterback that could legitimately pass the ball at an NFL level while also being a running threat? I'm talking guys in the vicinity of RGIII, Manziel, Terrell Pryor, Vince Young, Braxton Miller, Dak Prescott, etc. I would argue either it was Turner Gill (class of 1980) or we never have. I haven't seen enough of Gill to know if his passing skills were at that level. He threw a nice ball but I wouldn't put him up there based on completion percentage. I don't think Tommy will ever be there (I'd gladly be proven wrong), although with some improvement and a little help he can win a Big 10 title.

Anyway, I mostly just thought the table was interesting and thought I'd share.

I read this and it tells me, that Nebraska hasn't developed a NFL caliber QB in over 30 years. Further more it tells me the QB coaching issue has been around since before TIm Beck, before Shawn Watson, before... who ever the hell was coaching the offense before Shawn Watson. Its been an issue for decades.

And unless you want to change the culture at Nebraska football to favor developing more NFL caliber QB's, its just something that we are all going to have to put it up with. My belief, we don't need a NFL caliber QB to win championships, as long as we have an offensive line with NFL caliber talent, and a stable of running backs that are NFL caliber, those other positions such as TE, WR, and QB just have to be good enough to win. They don't need to be great.

 

[HuskerCarter]

I agree with True when he stated that we need to recruit a passer first with the ability to scramble. A player like that in our system would be deadly, think Colt McCoy. He could make all the throws and could also move the chains with his feet if needed. To me, we don't need someone that can take it to the house everytime on zone-reads but someone that can get 5-6 yrds a pop along with making all the throws.

Good luck with that, when your team's offense runs 70% of time.

 

[Mavric]

Tommy had issues the other night with his mechanics. I wont deny that. But the guy was under heavy fire from the defense all night long. he was never able to settle in and fire the ball. Now this is something he's gonna have to get better at. Standing in and not panicking and firing the ball. After the early heavy pressure by sparty, Tommy seemed to get a little happy feet for really the first time since taking over the starting role here last season. But if you look at his technique and mechanics when he's allowed to sit in the pocket and fire the ball, I think it happens to be quite a perdy site. But under the pressure he was under all night saturday, any quarterback is gonna look sloppy at times. So lets not look at that film and use it to deem Tommy's mechanics as a dumpster fire.

He definitely had enough pressure to make it difficult. But, as is also very common, once he got some pressure and his mechanics suffered, he was rushing and didn't take time on some throws when he did have good protection. Likely that will get better with experience.

But his mechanics on short throw are almost always lacking and have been from the time he got here. He looks great on deep throws because he has a strong arm but also has to step into the throws to get them 50-60 yards downfield. On short throws, he rarely transfers his weight correctly because a lot of the time his arm is strong enough to get it there anyway.

 

[JTrain]

I'd like to go back the past 10-15 years and look at every starting quarterback that was able to lead his team to the national championship game. And then see what percentage of those guys were considered only mid-level talents after 14 starts. It's not going to be very high. Especially in this era, the vast majority of great quarterbacks are recognizable as such within their first 5-10 games. And the only teams that get to the title game with a mid-level quarterback are the ones stocked with top ten recruiting classes. Since we aren't stocked with top ten recruiting classes and likely won't ever be, we need a great quarterback (and probably better coaches, but that's another thread).

It's not that I'm bashing Tommy, because the same principle applied to Martinez, Lee, Ganz, Keller, Taylor, Dailey, etc. I'm just pointing out that historically the chances of him getting us into championship contention are extremely slim.

 

[junior4949]

Isn't it going to be a little difficult finding any team that's won the NC in the last 10-15 years that didn't have a bunch of top 10 recruiting classes regardless of the QB position? Auburn with Scam Newton stands out, but Scam was just that good.

 

[EmeraldIngot]

His mechanics and fundamentals should of been worked on

Quarterbacks and coaches dont have time to go over mechanics. That stuff's done on their own in summers. That's why Martinez was visiting calhoun two summers in a row. It's while most all qbs visit some sort of guru in their offseasons. It's not the NFL. College staffs outside of the strength coach only have so many hours with their players throughout the year. the more time they spend dickin around with footwork and such, the less time they have to perfect their plays.
I think Tommy's mechanics and fundamentals are fine. It's mental to me at this point. Making wrong reads. Gettin a little carried away with forcing things. Just simply making bad throws. I dont think any of that is fundamental. it's mental.

Of course that opinion could be skewed when we're used to what we've seen for 3 previous years.

I've had this theory for a while. Standardized throwing mechanics don't mean a whole lot, only accuracy, zip (how fast the ball travels through the air), and a quick AND smooth release. Every NFL QBs throwing motion looks a little different, and some even side arm it a little and can still make accurate throws. The throw itself just has to have those three qualities. Granted, standard throwing mechanics can help improve all three of those areas in most QBs, but everyone throws a little differently.
But even if a person has accuracy, zip, and release, it's not a guarantee that they will be a good QB. The reads he has to make, the footwork of both himself and his recievers, and his awareness of the pass rush are much more important in determining if a pass will be complete or not. The reads are different in each system, but follow similar guidelines. The footwork helps the recievers and QB match up their timing, and timing makes it easier to determine reads. Awareness of the pass rush is pretty self explanatory. A QB has to make a quick decision to either step up and buy time, spin out of the pocket to buy time, or throw it away before he gets sacked, all while keeping his eyes on the recievers downfield.

In our passing game, I feel there is a lack of timing between TA and some of his recievers. Particularly Moore. Though it has been getting better. Timing can be fixed through careful repetition with the goal of improving timing. If TA can make a throw at the same time a reciever make the break, the ball will be to the reciever and in his hands well before the D has a chance to jump the route. That's timing. And that's what we need.

Good post, Ingot.

I like your three qualities, and even if TA does ok with slightly funky mechanics, those three qualities are definitely inconsistent with him at this point.

Timing being poor is a by-product of our top receivers going down with injuries. To develop good timing between a QB and WRs, they need reps. The guys TA has gotten reps with all spring and summer and fall are not playing. The only one he's used to is Westy. He's down Carter, Bell, Turner, Burtch, and Reilly at this point. Beyond that, obviously the WRs themselves are not as polished at running routes. But they will each run routes with different timing, and TA needs reps to adjust to that timing.

It'll get better as they work together more.

It's a preparation thing. Three deep on the WR depth charts need to get regular reps with the #1 offense. Backup QB needs to get regular reps with the #1 offense. Also, a system needs to be in place. For example, a three step drop from under center is used in quick passes like WR screens, slants, in or out routes, and some curls. 5 steps are used for shallow posts, corners, comebacks, and wheel routes. 7 step drops are reserved for play action and deep go and fade routes. From a shotgun or pistol where the QB is not under center, he's already in the position that a 3 step drop would be in, so he actually has more time to read those quick routes. A lot of the passes we were doing against Mich State were the equivalent to 5 step drop routes. Some of those deep play actions were 7 step equivalents.

In this kind of system, the time it takes to make a certain step drop is the timing it should take to run a certain route. If it's coached this way and practiced this way, the systematic timing helps to keep the timing close to identical even without a huge number of reps. Lots of West Coast, Run 'n Shoot, and Air Coryell systems use standardized drop and route timing to help the passing game. Pretty much the entire NFL uses drop and route timing. I don't really feel that WE have a set system for timing in place. It could only help if it was added, and I hope it does.

 

[JTrain]

Isn't it going to be a little difficult finding any team that's won the NC in the last 10-15 years that didn't have a bunch of top 10 recruiting classes regardless of the QB position? Auburn with Scam Newton stands out, but Scam was just that good.

Without digging too much, guys that got there without being surrounded by a bunch of top 10 recruiting classes were Cam Newton (Heisman), Eric Crouch (Heisman) and Michael Vick (amazing). Although Auburn still had pretty good recruits.

It's true that getting consistently awesome recruiting classes is definitely the easiest way to do it. But we aren't getting those, so we need a great quarterback and preferably some unique advantages elsewhere.

 

[admo]

Tommy had issues the other night with his mechanics. I wont deny that. But the guy was under heavy fire from the defense all night long. he was never able to settle in and fire the ball. Now this is something he's gonna have to get better at. Standing in and not panicking and firing the ball. After the early heavy pressure by sparty, Tommy seemed to get a little happy feet for really the first time since taking over the starting role here last season. But if you look at his technique and mechanics when he's allowed to sit in the pocket and fire the ball, I think it happens to be quite a perdy site. But under the pressure he was under all night saturday, any quarterback is gonna look sloppy at times. So lets not look at that film and use it to deem Tommy's mechanics as a dumpster fire.

He definitely had enough pressure to make it difficult. But, as is also very common, once he got some pressure and his mechanics suffered, he was rushing and didn't take time on some throws when he did have good protection. Likely that will get better with experience.

But his mechanics on short throw are almost always lacking and have been from the time he got here. He looks great on deep throws because he has a strong arm but also has to step into the throws to get them 50-60 yards downfield. On short throws, he rarely transfers his weight correctly because a lot of the time his arm is strong enough to get it there anyway.

I'm still a fan of Tommy and think he can have a good season. He really hasn't shown that he can throw a touch pass and when to throw it. They all seems to have the same amount of mustard, deep, middle or short.

 

[Army_Allen]

People seem to forget that Taylor had some of the worst o lines in recent husker history. Yet people harp on him for reverting whIle Tommy gets a pass. Pressure or no pressure, Tommy has trouble with the short pass and looking off defenders. Those aren't unfixable things that qbs just HAVE. A qb coach could do wonders for things like them and with all due respect to Barney, there are spots in administration where he'd be better put use.

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

People seem to forget that Taylor had some of the worst o lines in recent husker history. Yet people harp on him for reverting whIle Tommy gets a pass. Pressure or no pressure, Tommy has trouble with the short pass and looking off defenders. Those aren't unfixable things that qbs just HAVE. A qb coach could do wonders for things like them and with all due respect to Barney, there are spots in administration where he'd be better put use.

Barney doesn't need an admin spot. He needs to retire

 

[Army_Allen]

People seem to forget that Taylor had some of the worst o lines in recent husker history. Yet people harp on him for reverting whIle Tommy gets a pass. Pressure or no pressure, Tommy has trouble with the short pass and looking off defenders. Those aren't unfixable things that qbs just HAVE. A qb coach could do wonders for things like them and with all due respect to Barney, there are spots in administration where he'd be better put use.

Barney doesn't need an admin spot. He needs to retire

Haha I was trying to be nice.

 

[Danny Bateman]

People seem to forget that Taylor had some of the worst o lines in recent husker history. Yet people harp on him for reverting whIle Tommy gets a pass. Pressure or no pressure, Tommy has trouble with the short pass and looking off defenders. Those aren't unfixable things that qbs just HAVE. A qb coach could do wonders for things like them and with all due respect to Barney, there are spots in administration where he'd be better put use.

Barney doesn't need an admin spot. He needs to retire

Haha I was trying to be nice.

I'm gonna go with "He just needs to go away." Final answer, Regis.

 

[Mavric]

Samuel McKewon ‏@swmckewonOWH 4h4 hours ago
Pelini on radio: "When (Armstrong) gets in trouble, it's because of his footwork...I think he has gotten better."