The Christian Response to Jason Collins

[Junior]

So if Christians try to defend a position it is ridiculous. ie pointing out perceived persecution. I really think it depends on what side of the fence you are on. You can google all day and see where there is an alarming trend, IMO, to label Evangelical Christianity as hate speech. I do not see the same movement to limit Islamic teachings. That religion is no more hateful than Christianity. It is the fringe elements that are. No evangelical Christianity is not a fringe element. I really do not see that. BUT take your own opinions out of it and look at the issue, again IMO. Limit/defining speech is an attack on our fundamental rights to freedom of speech and religion. If the government or business world can define free speech in a manner to limit it, what else can they limit.

Chic-Fil-A possibly denied building permits for their views o Homosexuality. What if the town mayor was pro gun and did not allow any anti-gun businesses to move in based upon their verbal and written statements? A mayor denies a business license to a company that supports LGBT issues etc.... Just like people arguing to ban guns yet are up in arms about the lack of Miranda for the Boston bomber or the warrantless searches, etc.....A limit on any Constitutional right can ultimately end up being a limit on others. Including the ones you choose to like and/or support.

I have also seen statistics that have been posted identifying this nation as 77% Christian. I wish. There is a complete difference in identifying as a Christian and being one. A Huge difference. Religion vs Relationship. When one thinks of a Christian, IMO, it is a person who has salvation in Jesus. Billy Graham one time stated that approximately 15% of the church was actually saved (relationship with Jesus Christ). Other evangelists are slightly higher or lower. Huge difference than what people claim.

Tolerance goes both ways. It is funny a Christian tries to defend a position and is openly mocked, ridiculed etc..... That isn't tolerance. Every group, right or wrong, can always find a way to put themselves on the receiving end. Look at comments in this section alone. Not a lot of tolerance or seeing other peoples views.

First, if you have evidence of anyone labeling "Evangelical Christianity as hate speech", I'd be curious to see it. Outside of the desire to see the discrimination against gays end, what are you talking about?

Second... Really? Are you joking? You don't see a movement to limit Islamic teachings? I can provide evidence of groups trying to legislate against Islam. Ready. Set. Go:

http://www.huffingto..._n_1768915.html

That's when the Islamic center received permission to construct a new mosque to replace their overcrowded space in an office park. Since then they have had to deal with public protests, vandalism, arson of a construction vehicle and a bomb threat. Opponents of the project held a protest rally and then sued the county to stop construction.Their attorneys claimed in court that Islam was not a real religion deserving First Amendment protections. They also claimed that local Muslims were part of a plot to overthrow the U.S. constitution and replace it with Islamic law.

They were unable to prove those claims, which were thrown out by the judge, but construction was nearly halted anyway when that judge ruled in May there was not sufficient public notice for the meeting where mosque construction was approved.

Last month, a federal judge granted the mosque's request for an emergency order that would open the building in time for the holy month of Ramadan, which is still under way.

http://m.livingstonp...19bb2963f4.html

Rep. Valarie Hodges, R-Watson, says she had no idea that Gov. Bobby Jindal’s overhaul of the state’s educational system might mean taxpayer support of Muslim schools.“I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools,” the District 64 Representative said Monday.

“I liked the idea of giving parents the option of sending their children to a public school or a Christian school,” Hodges said.

“Unfortunately it will not be limited to the Founders’ religion,” Hodges said. “We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools. There are a thousand Muslim schools that have sprung up recently. I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere here in Louisiana.”

http://www.boston.co...omney_suggests/

In remarks that caused alarm among civil libertarians and advocates for immigrants rights, Romney said in a speech to the Heritage Foundation that the United States needs to radically rethink how it guards itself against terrorism.
''How many individuals are coming to our state and going to those institutions who have come from terrorist-sponsored states?" he said, referring to foreign students who attend universities in Massachusetts. ''Do we know where they are? Are we tracking them?"

''How about people who are in settings -- mosques, for instance -- that may be teaching doctrines of hate and terror," Romney continued. ''Are we monitoring that? Are we wiretapping? Are we following what's going on?"

http://www.theblaze....ng-a-hijab-and/

She ought to be in prison for wearing a hijab,” the commentator said. “This immigration policy of, you know, us assimilating immigrants into our culture isn’t really working.”

 

[Junior]

http://www.huffingto..._n_2992532.html

Alan Hays, a Republican state senator in Florida, likened Sharia law to a "dreadful disease" requiring vaccination to protect Americans.
Sharia law is the moral and religious code of Islam, practiced by more than 1.62 billion worldwide. There are no known efforts to implement Sharia law in any part of the U.S. judicial system, but a faction of Republican lawmakers have long waged a fight against its alleged infiltration of the government and pushed legislation that would ban its use in multiple states.

Hays is a co-sponsor of one such bill in Florida, which has seen little movement in the state legislature due to the lack of any precedent that would warrant the need to ban Sharia law.

http://www.rawstory....m-foot-washing/

Members of the state House and Senate contacted state Senate Clerk Russell Humphrey to ask if the floor-level sink had been installed outside the House chamber men’s restroom to accommodate Muslims’ ritual of washing their feet before prayer, according to The Associated Press.“There was concern about why it had been modified,” Humphrey said.

Republican state Sen. Bill Ketron confirmed that he had taken this issue up with Humphrey after state Rep. Judd Matheny ® became troubled that the sink could be for Muslims.

“I just asked the question about what was the intent of that,” Ketron explained.

“It is, in layman’s terms, a mop sink,” Ridley said.

http://usatoday30.us...w-shariah_N.htm

State Sen. Bill Ketron, R-Murfreesboro, and state Rep. Judd Matheny, R-Tullahoma, introduced the same bill in the Senate and House last week. It calls Shariah law a danger to homeland security and gives the attorney general authority to investigate complaints and decide who's practicing it.It exempts peaceful practice of Islam but labels any adherence to Shariah law — which includes religious practices such as feet washing and prayers — as treasonous. It claims Shariah adherents want to replace the Constitution with their religious law.

A dozen other states are considering anti-Shariah bills, and there's a federal lawsuit in Oklahoma over one.

Imam Mohamed Ahmed of the Islamic Center of Nashville on 12th Avenue South said Islam teaches its followers to obey the law of the land. Shariah law, he said, teaches moral values.

"What do you mean, really, by saying I can't abide by Shariah law?" he said. "Shariah law is telling me don't steal. Do you want me to steal and rob a bank?"

The Attorney General's Office had no comment.

Is that enough evidence of a movement to limit Islamic teachings? Or would you like me to provide more, because sadly, I can go on... and on... and on. If you could provide on such link to any proposed laws that would similarly limit Christianity, I'd love to see them. Honestly, let's see them. If you can "google all day", it shouldn't be difficult.

 

[lo country]

So if Christians try to defend a position it is ridiculous. ie pointing out perceived persecution. I really think it depends on what side of the fence you are on. You can google all day and see where there is an alarming trend, IMO, to label Evangelical Christianity as hate speech. I do not see the same movement to limit Islamic teachings. That religion is no more hateful than Christianity. It is the fringe elements that are. No evangelical Christianity is not a fringe element. I really do not see that. BUT take your own opinions out of it and look at the issue, again IMO. Limit/defining speech is an attack on our fundamental rights to freedom of speech and religion. If the government or business world can define free speech in a manner to limit it, what else can they limit.

Chic-Fil-A possibly denied building permits for their views o Homosexuality. What if the town mayor was pro gun and did not allow any anti-gun businesses to move in based upon their verbal and written statements? A mayor denies a business license to a company that supports LGBT issues etc.... Just like people arguing to ban guns yet are up in arms about the lack of Miranda for the Boston bomber or the warrantless searches, etc.....A limit on any Constitutional right can ultimately end up being a limit on others. Including the ones you choose to like and/or support.

I have also seen statistics that have been posted identifying this nation as 77% Christian. I wish. There is a complete difference in identifying as a Christian and being one. A Huge difference. Religion vs Relationship. When one thinks of a Christian, IMO, it is a person who has salvation in Jesus. Billy Graham one time stated that approximately 15% of the church was actually saved (relationship with Jesus Christ). Other evangelists are slightly higher or lower. Huge difference than what people claim.

Tolerance goes both ways. It is funny a Christian tries to defend a position and is openly mocked, ridiculed etc..... That isn't tolerance. Every group, right or wrong, can always find a way to put themselves on the receiving end. Look at comments in this section alone. Not a lot of tolerance or seeing other peoples views.

The problem of "not seeing other peoples' views" is more on the Christian end. The Christians tend to try to legislate their views onto the general population for 'their own good' which is not what the non-religious are doing. "Keep religion out of the law" is not the same thing. Christians are free to believe what they choose, but telling those not in their group how to behave is at issue. And honestly, Christians in this country donning the martyr cloak is getting old. Telling me to 'tolerate' their views while trying to legislate them on me is hypocrisy at its finest.

To those inside, they will never see the hate coming from the Evangelicals. If you think the likes of Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson are tolerant... What they have said, on TV even, can't really be viewed in any other light.

You don't see people decrying Islamic teachings here, because no one is shouting them on street corners, TV, Twitter, Facebook or any other host of media. If an Islamic group started pushing for women to have rights taken away, and start covering their heads in public, I assure you the backlash would be fierce.

So how are you seeing the Christians view? Legislating morality? What about the Pentagon denying free speech? What hate has Billy Graham spoken? What hate did Jesus speak of in the Bible. You say that homosexuality is a sin, you are a homophobe. Pro life you are a right wing extremist. The left is tolerant of Christian views? Really? So believing in the truths of the Bible make you an extremist in your opinion? The martyr cloak of the Christians keeping me down is also getting old.

So allowing late term abortions is not legislating the idea of someone elses morality or agenda? Gay marriage? Raising taxes on the wealthy? Gun control etc...... The list goes on on on. Both sides, what ever they may be do what they can to implement their policy. Do you really think that the advancement of Obama's policy are in line with Christianity?

In regards to Islam, do you really think that they would be given the same scrutiny as Christians. You say there would be if they were preaching on the corners. Two fundamentalist Islamics kill 3 Americans and injure over 100 in Boston and barely a peep about Islam. Benghazi and it was blamed on a 6 month old video, not radical Islam. The DHS literature on terrorism barely mentions Islam. You really think they would be treated the same. Go ahead and have SNL mock Muhammad.

To use your own words, being on the inside you can't even see the ideology of those you follow. Men are flawed............on both sides. It is a fallen world.

 

[Junior]

Billy Graham? What hate did he speak?

In a release of tapes by the Nixon Presidential Library in 2009, Billy Graham was heard in conversations with Pres. Nixon in the Oval Office, in 1973, heaping praise on Nixon, an infamous anti-Semite and the most corrupt president of the 20th century. During a discussion of Israel and the American Jewish Committee, Graham is also heard referring to a verse in Revelation which castigates people who pretend to be Jewish as liars who belong to a “synagogue of Satan.”
In response to the release of the Nixon tapes, a director of the Anti-Defamation League said that “while never expressing these views in public, Rev. Graham unabashedly held forth with the president with age-old classical anti-Semitic canards.”



In a previous release of Nixon tapes, after Nixon was heard railing against American Jews for their purported control of the media, Billy Graham said to Nixon that Jews want to befriend him but, “They don’t know how I really feel about what they’re doing to this country.”

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2012/05/04/billy-graham-93-shreds-his-legacy-joins-hate-group-crowd-in-endorsing-anti-gay-amendment-in-north-carolina/

 

[lo country]

Here you go:

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2013/May/Atheists-Seek-Pentagon-Crack-Down-on-Proselytizing/

Pentagon backing away

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/02/evangelical-pentagon-department-of-defense/2130583/

DOD blocks access to SBC

http://townhall.com/columnists/toddstarnes/2013/04/25/military-blocks-web-access-to-southern-baptist-convention-n1578281 banned DOD installations

Here is a whole list

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/army-email-labels-christian-ministries-as-domestic-hate-groups.html

Oh, and the Bible

John 15:18-21

“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me."

John 16:1-4

“These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put you out of the synagogues [today it might be from churches]; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them."

John 17:14-18

"I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one."

Galatians 5:11

"And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased."

 

[lo country]

Billy Graham? What hate did he speak?

In a release of tapes by the Nixon Presidential Library in 2009, Billy Graham was heard in conversations with Pres. Nixon in the Oval Office, in 1973, heaping praise on Nixon, an infamous anti-Semite and the most corrupt president of the 20th century. During a discussion of Israel and the American Jewish Committee, Graham is also heard referring to a verse in Revelation which castigates people who pretend to be Jewish as liars who belong to a “synagogue of Satan.”
In response to the release of the Nixon tapes, a director of the Anti-Defamation League said that “while never expressing these views in public, Rev. Graham unabashedly held forth with the president with age-old classical anti-Semitic canards.”

In a previous release of Nixon tapes, after Nixon was heard railing against American Jews for their purported control of the media, Billy Graham said to Nixon that Jews want to befriend him but, “They don’t know how I really feel about what they’re doing to this country.”

http://www.pensitore...north-carolina/

Billy Graham? What hate did he speak?

In a release of tapes by the Nixon Presidential Library in 2009, Billy Graham was heard in conversations with Pres. Nixon in the Oval Office, in 1973, heaping praise on Nixon, an infamous anti-Semite and the most corrupt president of the 20th century. During a discussion of Israel and the American Jewish Committee, Graham is also heard referring to a verse in Revelation which castigates people who pretend to be Jewish as liars who belong to a “synagogue of Satan.”
In response to the release of the Nixon tapes, a director of the Anti-Defamation League said that “while never expressing these views in public, Rev. Graham unabashedly held forth with the president with age-old classical anti-Semitic canards.”

In a previous release of Nixon tapes, after Nixon was heard railing against American Jews for their purported control of the media, Billy Graham said to Nixon that Jews want to befriend him but, “They don’t know how I really feel about what they’re doing to this country.”

http://www.pensitore...north-carolina/

The title of your article says it all. Expressing his Biblical views on Homosexuality is considered hate. That is my point exactly. If a Christian says anything that goes against the main stream media, based on the Bible it is hate speech.

 

[JJ Husker]

The problem of "not seeing other peoples' views" is more on the Christian end. The Christians tend to try to legislate their views onto the general population for 'their own good' which is not what the non-religious are doing. "Keep religion out of the law" is not the same thing. Christians are free to believe what they choose, but telling those not in their group how to behave is at issue. And honestly, Christians in this country donning the martyr cloak is getting old. Telling me to 'tolerate' their views while trying to legislate them on me is hypocrisy at its finest.

This is so much bullsh#t. Actually it is an over the top example of bigotry and stereotyping a whole group of people, Christians in this case. You are blaming all Christians for the actions of a few. If I or anyone else did this with any other group of people the whole board would be crawling up our a$$. But since you did it towards Christians, you'll probably receive a bunch of +1's and words of encouragement. That's not a martyr complex, it's a fact.

 

[Junior]

Here you go:

http://www.cbn.com/c...-Proselytizing/

Pentagon backing away

http://www.usatoday....efense/2130583/

DOD blocks access to SBC

http://townhall.com/...ention-n1578281 banned DOD installations

Here is a whole list

http://radio.foxnews...ate-groups.html

Oh, and the Bible

John 15:18-21

“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me."

John 16:1-4

“These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put you out of the synagogues [today it might be from churches]; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them."

John 17:14-18

"I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one."

Galatians 5:11

"And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased."

Link one: How is that limited to Christianity?

Link two: That's the same story as link one, and doesn't count as additional evidence.

Link three: Man you are really focused on the Army... Is blocking that site censorship and an over reaction? Probably, but honestly, you've provided no evidence of anything even approaching the examples I've shared, where people could legitimately be jailed for practicing their religion.

And using the Bible as evidence of Christian persecution in the US? Really?

 

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Nothing, Shark. Just quoting for posterity

 

[Junior]

Billy Graham? What hate did he speak?

In a release of tapes by the Nixon Presidential Library in 2009, Billy Graham was heard in conversations with Pres. Nixon in the Oval Office, in 1973, heaping praise on Nixon, an infamous anti-Semite and the most corrupt president of the 20th century. During a discussion of Israel and the American Jewish Committee, Graham is also heard referring to a verse in Revelation which castigates people who pretend to be Jewish as liars who belong to a “synagogue of Satan.”
In response to the release of the Nixon tapes, a director of the Anti-Defamation League said that “while never expressing these views in public, Rev. Graham unabashedly held forth with the president with age-old classical anti-Semitic canards.”

In a previous release of Nixon tapes, after Nixon was heard railing against American Jews for their purported control of the media, Billy Graham said to Nixon that Jews want to befriend him but, “They don’t know how I really feel about what they’re doing to this country.”

http://www.pensitore...north-carolina/

The title of your article says it all. Expressing his Biblical views on Homosexuality is considered hate. That is my point exactly. If a Christian says anything that goes against the main stream media, based on the Bible it is hate speech.

No, expressing biblical views on homosexuality isn't hate. Campaigning to prevent homosexuals from being allowed to marry is hate. There is a difference that you seem to be unable to comprehend.

One of the additional reasons that I think people view the religious response to homosexuality as bigoted is the fact that, yes, homosexuality is a sin (according to Christianity). But so is divorce, and we've seen no movements to ban divorce. So why is one sin worse than the other?

Also, good job ignoring his antisemitism.

 

[Enhance]

The problem is fringe radicalism on both sides of the argument. I get the feeling that more and more Americans are becoming apathetic towards these issues. Many of us don't care if you're Christian, Muslim or Buddhist, or whether you're gay, straight or bisexual. The overwhelming issue is when radicals on both sides throw mud on the other, and the people in the middle that get caught up in the non-sense.

More back to the original post (since I'm a little late to the party here), I'll offer my two cents. I see what point the Tweet was making, but they're very different cups of tea. Collins is the first athlete in one of the major four sports to say he is gay (not counting retired athletes). Being a Christian in America is nowhere near as controversial as being gay is, and that is an undeniable fact. The two are in completely different solar systems of controversy. While I do think the Christian label takes some unnecessary beatings at times, it still doesn't amount to what being gay means in this country. Again, this isn't denying that Christians get unfairly criticized.

Personally, I look forward to the day when this kind of news is no-news. I don't care what someone does in their free time as long as they aren't harming anybody else.

 

[HuskerShark]

Nothing, Shark. Just quoting for posterity

What do you want to do to my future children?

 

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Nothing, Shark. Just quoting for posterity

What do you want to do to my future children?

Nothing.

 

[carlfense]

You can google all day and see where there is an alarming trend, IMO, to label Evangelical Christianity as hate speech.

Eh?

Chic-Fil-A possibly denied building permits for their views o Homosexuality.

Seems like that bolded part is significant. Also . . . if your definition of persecution is even partially predicated on a hypothetical building permit for Chic-Fil-A . . . well . . .

Tolerance goes both ways. It is funny a Christian tries to defend a position and is openly mocked, ridiculed etc..... That isn't tolerance. Every group, right or wrong, can always find a way to put themselves on the receiving end. Look at comments in this section alone. Not a lot of tolerance or seeing other peoples views.

Being mocked? Really? Freedom of speech cuts both ways, you know. It doesn't mean that you have the right to be free from ridicule.

 

[carlfense]

I guess if you're in a majority category on an issue your views and opinions don't have to be tolerated by others.

There's that persecution complex again. Someone disagreeing with you or mocking you doesn't mean that your views or opinions aren't tolerated. :hmmph

It would appear that in many cases you are relegated to the expectation of only having to tolerate others views and must keep your opinions to yourself or run the risk of public ridicule.

This is quite wonderful, really. We don't even need sources to show the persecution complex . . . we've got our own examples right here.