The Christian Response to Jason Collins

[BigRedBuster]

As far as being a Catholic, yes I am. And at the risk of bible thumping. And bear in mind that I am going to answer your question as truthfully as I can and know that it is not necessarily MY opinion. Jesus would say to love and respect and to forgive one another no matter their lifestyle. But he also said to follow God's law and the Commandments which in today's world is difficult at times.

The thing is that love and tolerance aren't the same thing, nor are love and kindness. When people around you are living in sin, the way to extend love is to graciously and patiently come up next to them, point them towards Jesus and let the Holy Spirit work on their heart through your actions and through God's truth revealed in Scripture. It's not to condemn them or separate yourself from them, because you know you were once in their shoes, but neither is it to be accepting of whatever they choose to do with their live and not encouraging them towards maturity and obedience.

The problem is, Christians in many many cases have completely failed in their ability to accomplish what you just described. This is accomplished by YOUR ACTIONS. You said it correctly there. It is NOT accomplished by standing on a street corner with a sign proclaiming that a certain group is going to go to hell or proclaiming that God hates you or anything about you. This is accomplished by living a life with God that the shows the people who you want to influence how living a spiritual life is the way to happiness.

Honestly, as a Christian, I look at some Christian groups and just shake my head in disgust because I don't even want to be associated with them. Why would someone who at this point doesn't consider them Christian want to be involved with such groups?

Ultimate, God is the judge of man. Way too many Christians have completely forgotten that part.

 

[Landlord]

As far as being a Catholic, yes I am. And at the risk of bible thumping. And bear in mind that I am going to answer your question as truthfully as I can and know that it is not necessarily MY opinion. Jesus would say to love and respect and to forgive one another no matter their lifestyle. But he also said to follow God's law and the Commandments which in today's world is difficult at times.

The thing is that love and tolerance aren't the same thing, nor are love and kindness. When people around you are living in sin, the way to extend love is to graciously and patiently come up next to them, point them towards Jesus and let the Holy Spirit work on their heart through your actions and through God's truth revealed in Scripture. It's not to condemn them or separate yourself from them, because you know you were once in their shoes, but neither is it to be accepting of whatever they choose to do with their live and not encouraging them towards maturity and obedience.

The problem is, Christians in many many cases have completely failed in their ability to accomplish what you just described. This is accomplished by YOUR ACTIONS. You said it correctly there. It is NOT accomplished by standing on a street corner with a sign proclaiming that a certain group is going to go to hell or proclaiming that God hates you or anything about you. This is accomplished by living a life with God that the shows the people who you want to influence how living a spiritual life is the way to happiness.

Honestly, as a Christian, I look at some Christian groups and just shake my head in disgust because I don't even want to be associated with them. Why would someone who at this point doesn't consider them Christian want to be involved with such groups?

Ultimate, God is the judge of man. Way too many Christians have completely forgotten that part.

You're not incorrect, but what of it? The church is a body composed of broken people. You shaking your head in disgust and not wanting association isn't love towards them and then boom you're guilty of the same thing. In that moment, I would encourage you to come alongside your brothers and sisters, put an arm around them and say, "Hey. Look. I love you and I want what's best for you and I've gotta say that this isn't the way to do it. Let's work on this together." If you follow Jesus you are part of the family and you have to claim everyone else that is too, because they claim you and because Jesus claims you and them together. You're in the exact same broken place that they are.

 

[Someone]

As far as being a Catholic, yes I am. And at the risk of bible thumping. And bear in mind that I am going to answer your question as truthfully as I can and know that it is not necessarily MY opinion. Jesus would say to love and respect and to forgive one another no matter their lifestyle. But he also said to follow God's law and the Commandments which in today's world is difficult at times.

The thing is that love and tolerance aren't the same thing, nor are love and kindness. When people around you are living in sin, the way to extend love is to graciously and patiently come up next to them, point them towards Jesus and let the Holy Spirit work on their heart through your actions and through God's truth revealed in Scripture. It's not to condemn them or separate yourself from them, because you know you were once in their shoes, but neither is it to be accepting of whatever they choose to do with their live and not encouraging them towards maturity and obedience.

The problem is, Christians in many many cases have completely failed in their ability to accomplish what you just described. This is accomplished by YOUR ACTIONS. You said it correctly there. It is NOT accomplished by standing on a street corner with a sign proclaiming that a certain group is going to go to hell or proclaiming that God hates you or anything about you. This is accomplished by living a life with God that the shows the people who you want to influence how living a spiritual life is the way to happiness.

Honestly, as a Christian, I look at some Christian groups and just shake my head in disgust because I don't even want to be associated with them. Why would someone who at this point doesn't consider them Christian want to be involved with such groups?

Ultimate, God is the judge of man. Way too many Christians have completely forgotten that part.

You're not incorrect, but what of it? The church is a body composed of broken people. You shaking your head in disgust and not wanting association isn't love towards them and then boom you're guilty of the same thing. In that moment, I would encourage you to come alongside your brothers and sisters, put an arm around them and say, "Hey. Look. I love you and I want what's best for you and I've gotta say that this isn't the way to do it. Let's work on this together." If you follow Jesus you are part of the family and you have to claim everyone else that is too, because they claim you and because Jesus claims you and them together. You're in the exact same broken place that they are.

I like what you are saying Landlord, but the Catholic church in KS fought and won a battle to change the law so that now anyone can practice their own personal for of hate, segragation and exclusion, all in the name of religious freedom (as long as they don't violate title IX.)

And, sadly, there is ZERO outrage. Rather than put your arm around them and saying let's work together, in KS the law is "NO SOUP FOR YOU!" Catholic are unwilling or afraid to speak out.

Homosexual sex is a sin (according to the Catholic church). So is premarrital sex. If an unmarried adult is not having sex--be it gay or straight--aren't the on equal footing in the eyes of God?

 

[StPaulHusker]

As far as being a Catholic, yes I am. And at the risk of bible thumping. And bear in mind that I am going to answer your question as truthfully as I can and know that it is not necessarily MY opinion. Jesus would say to love and respect and to forgive one another no matter their lifestyle. But he also said to follow God's law and the Commandments which in today's world is difficult at times.

The thing is that love and tolerance aren't the same thing, nor are love and kindness. When people around you are living in sin, the way to extend love is to graciously and patiently come up next to them, point them towards Jesus and let the Holy Spirit work on their heart through your actions and through God's truth revealed in Scripture. It's not to condemn them or separate yourself from them, because you know you were once in their shoes, but neither is it to be accepting of whatever they choose to do with their live and not encouraging them towards maturity and obedience.

The problem is, Christians in many many cases have completely failed in their ability to accomplish what you just described. This is accomplished by YOUR ACTIONS. You said it correctly there. It is NOT accomplished by standing on a street corner with a sign proclaiming that a certain group is going to go to hell or proclaiming that God hates you or anything about you. This is accomplished by living a life with God that the shows the people who you want to influence how living a spiritual life is the way to happiness.

Honestly, as a Christian, I look at some Christian groups and just shake my head in disgust because I don't even want to be associated with them. Why would someone who at this point doesn't consider them Christian want to be involved with such groups?

Ultimate, God is the judge of man. Way too many Christians have completely forgotten that part.

You're not incorrect, but what of it? The church is a body composed of broken people. You shaking your head in disgust and not wanting association isn't love towards them and then boom you're guilty of the same thing. In that moment, I would encourage you to come alongside your brothers and sisters, put an arm around them and say, "Hey. Look. I love you and I want what's best for you and I've gotta say that this isn't the way to do it. Let's work on this together." If you follow Jesus you are part of the family and you have to claim everyone else that is too, because they claim you and because Jesus claims you and them together. You're in the exact same broken place that they are.

I like what you are saying Landlord, but the Catholic church in KS fought and won a battle to change the law so that now anyone can practice their own personal for of hate, segragation and exclusion, all in the name of religious freedom (as long as they don't violate title IX.)

And, sadly, there is ZERO outrage. Rather than put your arm around them and saying let's work together, in KS the law is "NO SOUP FOR YOU!" Catholic are unwilling or afraid to speak out.

Homosexual sex is a sin (according to the Catholic church). So is premarrital sex. If an unmarried adult is not having sex--be it gay or straight--aren't the on equal footing in the eyes of God?

They are sins according to the Bible and Ten Commandments. Not just the Catholic Church. But to answer your question, yes.

 

[Junior]

They are sins according to the Bible and Ten Commandments. Not just the Catholic Church. But to answer your question, yes.

I think the point being, why is one actively being legislated against? Shouldn't Christians pushing to ban gay marriage also be pushing to ban divorce?

 

[knapplc]

Shouldn't Christians pushing to ban gay marriage also be pushing to ban divorce?

Odds are they're too busy getting their own divorce to legislate against divorce.

 

[StPaulHusker]

They are sins according to the Bible and Ten Commandments. Not just the Catholic Church. But to answer your question, yes.

I think the point being, why is one actively being legislated against? Shouldn't Christians pushing to ban gay marriage also be pushing to ban divorce?

Maybe. But I am not sure where it is written in the Commandments or the bible that divorce is a sin. And I am sure if a person were to research back far enough, divorce was illegal. I think even in the 50's and maybe 60's a woman couldn't get a divorce without the permission of the man. Things evolved over time and now it is very commonplace here in the States.

But back to your post. The Catholic Church BELIEVES divorce is a sin. All religions KNOW the above mentioned activities are a sin.

 

[BigRedBuster]

They are sins according to the Bible and Ten Commandments. Not just the Catholic Church. But to answer your question, yes.

I think the point being, why is one actively being legislated against? Shouldn't Christians pushing to ban gay marriage also be pushing to ban divorce?

Maybe. But I am not sure where it is written in the Commandments or the bible that divorce is a sin. And I am sure if a person were to research back far enough, divorce was illegal. I think even in the 50's and maybe 60's a woman couldn't get a divorce without the permission of the man. Things evolved over time and now it is very commonplace here in the States.

But back to your post. The Catholic Church BELIEVES divorce is a sin. All religions KNOW the above mentioned activities are a sin.

But, here is where I believe most Christians fail. Gay sex or premarital sex may be a sin. But, it isn't human's place to condemn those who sin. It is God's place to do so if he so chooses. We as Christians are to welcome all into the church so that each person can have their own personal relationship with God and find their own way to what they believe God wants. In a healthy Christian relationship, hopefully we all (through example) help each other achieve that. BUT, that completely fails when a group tries to act like THEY are condemning other humans.

 

[StPaulHusker]

They are sins according to the Bible and Ten Commandments. Not just the Catholic Church. But to answer your question, yes.

I think the point being, why is one actively being legislated against? Shouldn't Christians pushing to ban gay marriage also be pushing to ban divorce?

Maybe. But I am not sure where it is written in the Commandments or the bible that divorce is a sin. And I am sure if a person were to research back far enough, divorce was illegal. I think even in the 50's and maybe 60's a woman couldn't get a divorce without the permission of the man. Things evolved over time and now it is very commonplace here in the States.

But back to your post. The Catholic Church BELIEVES divorce is a sin. All religions KNOW the above mentioned activities are a sin.

But, here is where I believe most Christians fail. Gay sex or premarital sex may be a sin. But, it isn't human's place to condemn those who sin. It is God's place to do so if he so chooses. We as Christians are to welcome all into the church so that each person can have their own personal relationship with God and find their own way to what they believe God wants. In a healthy Christian relationship, hopefully we all (through example) help each other achieve that. BUT, that completely fails when a group tries to act like THEY are condemning other humans.

It is a very good point. But you have steered away from both questions. Someone asked about hetero premarital sex and homosexual sex being on the same footing in the eyes of God as far as sin. The answer is yes according to the Bible's teachings.

Then you asked about Christians pushing for divorce to be illegal. And it was at one point and things evolved to a point of where it isn't any longer.

I don't believe that just because a person wants to "protect marriage" that they are condemning homosexuals. Granted, you will see people do both, but it's shouldn't be a blanket statement.

 

[Junior]

They are sins according to the Bible and Ten Commandments. Not just the Catholic Church. But to answer your question, yes.

I think the point being, why is one actively being legislated against? Shouldn't Christians pushing to ban gay marriage also be pushing to ban divorce?

Maybe. But I am not sure where it is written in the Commandments or the bible that divorce is a sin. And I am sure if a person were to research back far enough, divorce was illegal. I think even in the 50's and maybe 60's a woman couldn't get a divorce without the permission of the man. Things evolved over time and now it is very commonplace here in the States.

But back to your post. The Catholic Church BELIEVES divorce is a sin. All religions KNOW the above mentioned activities are a sin.

Romans 7:2-3

For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then if, while her husband is living, she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress, though she is joined to another man.

Matthew 5:31-32

"And it was said, 'Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce'; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Luke 16:18

"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4

"When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out from his house, and she leaves his house and goes and becomes another man's wife, and if the latter husband turns against her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife, then her former husband who sent her away is not allowed to take her again to be his wife, since she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.

7th Commandmant: Thou shalt not commit adultery

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Marriage in a legal sense as the government cares about it has absolutely NOTHING to do with religion and people who get their panties in a wad about it do so because they feel it is their job to condemn gay people for their actions and by opposing gay marriage is some how fulfilling their duties as Christians.. Some how by allowing them to be "married" legally is some how affecting the Christian in some way in their minds. It is completely idiotic.

 

[StPaulHusker]

They are sins according to the Bible and Ten Commandments. Not just the Catholic Church. But to answer your question, yes.

I think the point being, why is one actively being legislated against? Shouldn't Christians pushing to ban gay marriage also be pushing to ban divorce?

Maybe. But I am not sure where it is written in the Commandments or the bible that divorce is a sin. And I am sure if a person were to research back far enough, divorce was illegal. I think even in the 50's and maybe 60's a woman couldn't get a divorce without the permission of the man. Things evolved over time and now it is very commonplace here in the States.

But back to your post. The Catholic Church BELIEVES divorce is a sin. All religions KNOW the above mentioned activities are a sin.

Romans 7:2-3

For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then if, while her husband is living, she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress, though she is joined to another man.

Matthew 5:31-32

"And it was said, 'Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce'; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.



Luke 16:18

"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4

"When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out from his house, and she leaves his house and goes and becomes another man's wife, and if the latter husband turns against her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife, then her former husband who sent her away is not allowed to take her again to be his wife, since she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.

Sounds good to me. Nice job finding it.

In the end people are going to wage war based on their religious beliefs on whatever topic they feel passionate about. Divorce and adultery seems to have lost steam over the years. Maybe with luck, gay marriage will too.

 

[StPaulHusker]

Marriage in a legal sense as the government cares about it has absolutely NOTHING to do with religion and people who get their panties in a wad about it do so because they feel it is their job to condemn gay people for their actions and by opposing gay marriage is some how fulfilling their duties as Christians.. Some how by allowing them to be "married" legally is some how affecting the Christian in some way in their minds. It is completely idiotic.

I agree.

I have always said that 2 gay people getting married doesn't destroy the sanctity of MY marriage.

I think getting married at a drive-through by an Elvis impersonator at 3AM in Las Vegas does more to destroy the sanctity of marriage.

MY religion doesn't have to recognize it if it doesn't want to. And I have the right to continue to follow that religion if I choose.

I am pissed that I had to pay a fee to get married when we are denying the collection of the same fees from other people.

That's my soapbox

 

[knapplc]

I am pissed that I had to pay a fee to get married when we are denying the collection of the same fees from other people.

So THAT'S why Republicans are against Gay Marriage. They all signed Grover Norquist's pledge!

 

[Someone]

You're not incorrect, but what of it? The church is a body composed of broken people. You shaking your head in disgust and not wanting association isn't love towards them and then boom you're guilty of the same thing. In that moment, I would encourage you to come alongside your brothers and sisters, put an arm around them and say, "Hey. Look. I love you and I want what's best for you and I've gotta say that this isn't the way to do it. Let's work on this together." If you follow Jesus you are part of the family and you have to claim everyone else that is too, because they claim you and because Jesus claims you and them together. You're in the exact same broken place that they are.

I like what you are saying Landlord, but the Catholic church in KS fought and won a battle to change the law so that now anyone can practice their own personal for of hate, segragation and exclusion, all in the name of religious freedom (as long as they don't violate title IX.)

And, sadly, there is ZERO outrage. Rather than put your arm around them and saying let's work together, in KS the law is "NO SOUP FOR YOU!" Catholic are unwilling or afraid to speak out.

Homosexual sex is a sin (according to the Catholic church). So is premarrital sex. If an unmarried adult is not having sex--be it gay or straight--aren't the on equal footing in the eyes of God?

They are sins according to the Bible and Ten Commandments. Not just the Catholic Church. But to answer your question, yes.

They are sins according to the Bible and Ten Commandments. Not just the Catholic Church. But to answer your question, yes.

Maybe. But I am not sure where it is written in the Commandments or the bible that divorce is a sin. And I am sure if a person were to research back far enough, divorce was illegal. I think even in the 50's and maybe 60's a woman couldn't get a divorce without the permission of the man. Things evolved over time and now it is very commonplace here in the States.

But back to your post. The Catholic Church BELIEVES divorce is a sin. All religions KNOW the above mentioned activities are a sin.

I am a shocked and deeply sadden to read the bold statements above.

"You can make a much stronger textual case against woman preaching or divorce or in favor of slavery or women being submissive than you can against same gender relationships. Each time we have faced one of these issues, we have thought it prudent to disregard Biblical precedent in favor of Biblical principle."

"Deuteronomy 22:13-21

If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by

stoning immediately.

Deuteronomy 22:22

If a married person has sex with someone else’s husband or wife, the Bible commands

that both adulterers be stoned to death.

Mark 10:1-12

Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been

divorced.

Leviticus 18:19

The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman’s

period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.

Mark 12: 18-27

If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each

of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by

grabbing the enemy’s genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her"

Jesus never said anything against homosexuality and He approved gender reassignment surgery. — (Matthew 19:12)

David and Jonathan’s tragic love story. — (1 Samuel 18:1-4; 1 Samuel 20:40-42; 2 Samuel 1:25-27)

"The Bible says clearly that sex with a prostitute for the husband is acceptable but not acceptable for the wife; polygamy (more than one wife) is acceptable; concubines for the king (acceptable), in Solomon’s case, the wisest king of all, 1,000 concubines (acceptable); slavery and sex with slaves (acceptable); marriage for girls, ages 11–13 (acceptable); treatment of women as property (acceptable); inter-racial marriage (not acceptable); birth control (not acceptable); discussing or even naming a sexual organ (not acceptable); seeing your parents nude (definitely not acceptable)."