The Nebraska Way

[Count 'Bility]

For the record, I never stated he should have been kicked off the team. I said TO handled it wrong.

I've generally agreed with you on this situation but I'm curious about this comment. LP only played one more game at Nebraska. So about the only thing to do differently would have been to kick him off the team.

well, technically, 4 more games. he suited and appeared in the Iowa St, Kansas, and Oklahoma games. But wasnt back to his old form till the Fiesta Bowl. He was glaringly rusty in the other 3.

 

[cm husker]

Bo had a wife beater on his staff, I never saw the out pouring of hate toward him. What if he had killed her right before the bowl game? Would that have left a stain on our image?? Nobody is perfect in this life. A little fender bender nearly 10 years after his last offense does not need to get him discarded for someone else that likely has skeletons in their closet.

This is easily fixable. Riley suspends him for a few months to send a message to him and the players that nobody is above the rules and the AD redoes his contract to stipulate NO Alcohol consumption for the remainder of the time he is employed by the University, or it is automatic dismissal.

Different scenarios because the offense occurred later. And not relevant.

We already talked about TO. You have your facts wrong. It's a bad idea going with a version of events based on a single prosecutor's press release.

Tom hid a gun in his desk for Abdul Muhammad, he wrote about it in his book. My facts are facts. You just deny and put your opinion out as fact.

I think you missed what CM said - he only speaks FACTS

There's an irony in you calling me out while we are still waiting for a link to the "fact" that TO hid a gun for Muhammad.

the si hit piece has a quote from osborne about the incident. and it was tyrone wiliams gun that steele and osborne hid.

In contrast to Saber, you at least seem to know some of the "facts" around that incident, like who was involved.

Now I recommend you look for the additional information that the prosecutor didn't release in his press statements.

Some of those facts will include that TO and his staff immediately notified police of the gun, kept it secure (didn't try to "hide" it or destroy it) and held it for only two days, turning it over immediately when a police officer came to retrieve it.

If you go only off of an SI article and Lacey's statements, I understand why you come away with the impression that TO obstructed justice.

But, one only has to ask: was he or his staff even investigated for, let alone charged with, obstruction or hiding evidence? The answer is a resounding no. AND, Williams was not guilty of the underlying crime allegedly involving the gun.

People need to stop believing that prosecutor press releases are gospel.

 

[knapplc]

Bo had a wife beater on his staff, I never saw the out pouring of hate toward him. What if he had killed her right before the bowl game? Would that have left a stain on our image?? Nobody is perfect in this life. A little fender bender nearly 10 years after his last offense does not need to get him discarded for someone else that likely has skeletons in their closet.

This is easily fixable. Riley suspends him for a few months to send a message to him and the players that nobody is above the rules and the AD redoes his contract to stipulate NO Alcohol consumption for the remainder of the time he is employed by the University, or it is automatic dismissal.

Different scenarios because the offense occurred later. And not relevant.

We already talked about TO. You have your facts wrong. It's a bad idea going with a version of events based on a single prosecutor's press release.

Tom hid a gun in his desk for Abdul Muhammad, he wrote about it in his book. My facts are facts. You just deny and put your opinion out as fact.

I think you missed what CM said - he only speaks FACTS

There's an irony in you calling me out while we are still waiting for a link to the "fact" that TO hid a gun for Muhammad.

the si hit piece has a quote from osborne about the incident. and it was tyrone wiliams gun that steele and osborne hid.

In contrast to Saber, you at least seem to know some of the "facts" around that incident, like who was involved.

Now I recommend you look for the additional information that the prosecutor didn't release in his press statements.

Some of those facts will include that TO and his staff immediately notified police of the gun, kept it secure (didn't try to "hide" it or destroy it) and held it for only two days, turning it over immediately when a police officer came to retrieve it.

If you go only off of an SI article and Lacey's statements, I understand why you come away with the impression that TO obstructed justice.

But, one only has to ask: was he or his staff even investigated for, let alone charged with, obstruction or hiding evidence? The answer is a resounding no. AND, Williams was not guilty of the underlying crime allegedly involving the gun.

People need to stop believing that prosecutor press releases are gospel.

Taking Osborne's word for everything is great if you believe he has unimpeachable character. He's shown he doesn't, and therefore should be scrutinized heavily, as should his statements and actions.

When you treat coaches like infallible gods, taking their word only, you get situations like Art Briles and Joe Paterno. Those aren't mistakes I'd like to see replicated at Nebraska. Stop putting coaches on pedestals, and start looking at them as they are. Use all the facts.

 

[cm husker]

Kate McEwen did not make a plea that Lawrence Philips should be allowed back on the team. The University offered her round-the-clock protection in the wake of Phillips' attack. She left Nebraska after we failed to honor her scholarship.

Because she "didn't show progress in her basketball abilities."

I wonder what circumstances might have gotten in the way of her succeeding...

That was an editorialization in the article you're referring to. Not a quote from the team. And, I thought that she finished her academic career at NU (will need to verify that). Personally, I think her schollie should have been renewed, because I don't believe in pulling a scholarship from any athlete who is academically eligible and has not broken team rules.

 

[desertshox]

judging by all the LP talk, methinks the vast majority didnt read the link.

If you read only that SI hit piece, you'll come away with a wrong (let alone incomplete) view of what happened.

um, i was referring to the fact it also included several more incidents that occurred in the early to mid 90's that have basically been ignored in this discussion.

And I'm referring to the fact that of the four players charged those years, only two were found guilty.

Why should TO have kicked Benning and Muhammad out of the program for crimes they weren't guilty of? Yet, SI tries to draw those incidents into the article in an effort to paint a narrative that simply isn't accurate.

Benning finished school and has become a valued member of the local media.

HEre's what Muhammed appears to be doing: http://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/football/former-husker-muhammad-finds-his-reward-helping-youth/article_7d4e1af6-1420-5d97-871b-a59a39cfc753.html

Even C. Peter has turned things around.

do you even realize that i am merely pointing out that of the many incidents that occurred during osborne's time as head coach the only one being talked about is the LP incident?

well it was when i posted what you first quoted.

 

[cm husker]

Bo had a wife beater on his staff, I never saw the out pouring of hate toward him. What if he had killed her right before the bowl game? Would that have left a stain on our image?? Nobody is perfect in this life. A little fender bender nearly 10 years after his last offense does not need to get him discarded for someone else that likely has skeletons in their closet.

This is easily fixable. Riley suspends him for a few months to send a message to him and the players that nobody is above the rules and the AD redoes his contract to stipulate NO Alcohol consumption for the remainder of the time he is employed by the University, or it is automatic dismissal.

Different scenarios because the offense occurred later. And not relevant.

We already talked about TO. You have your facts wrong. It's a bad idea going with a version of events based on a single prosecutor's press release.

Tom hid a gun in his desk for Abdul Muhammad, he wrote about it in his book. My facts are facts. You just deny and put your opinion out as fact.

I think you missed what CM said - he only speaks FACTS

There's an irony in you calling me out while we are still waiting for a link to the "fact" that TO hid a gun for Muhammad.

the si hit piece has a quote from osborne about the incident. and it was tyrone wiliams gun that steele and osborne hid.

In contrast to Saber, you at least seem to know some of the "facts" around that incident, like who was involved.

Now I recommend you look for the additional information that the prosecutor didn't release in his press statements.

Some of those facts will include that TO and his staff immediately notified police of the gun, kept it secure (didn't try to "hide" it or destroy it) and held it for only two days, turning it over immediately when a police officer came to retrieve it.

If you go only off of an SI article and Lacey's statements, I understand why you come away with the impression that TO obstructed justice.

But, one only has to ask: was he or his staff even investigated for, let alone charged with, obstruction or hiding evidence? The answer is a resounding no. AND, Williams was not guilty of the underlying crime allegedly involving the gun.

People need to stop believing that prosecutor press releases are gospel.

Taking Osborne's word for everything is great if you believe he has unimpeachable character. He's shown he doesn't, and therefore should be scrutinized heavily, as should his statements and actions.

When you treat coaches like infallible gods, taking their word only, you get situations like Art Briles and Joe Paterno. Those aren't mistakes I'd like to see replicated at Nebraska. Stop putting coaches on pedestals, and start looking at them as they are. Use all the facts.

I'm not taking Osborne's word on everything.

Hiding a gun is a felony. Was TO, his staff or anyone else investigated - let alone charged with - this crime?

Or is it all a vast coverup that only a single prosecutor would air?

 

[84HuskerLaw]

No one is perfect. The question is, do you consistently apply the correct reasoning even if the result isn't always right or preferred. It's literally what the inscription on the stadium means.

You realize that inscription was put there before we were a winning program?

Yep.

I ask again, does your analysis of the handling of LP change at all if you find out that Kate McEwen and her attorney thought he should be reinstated?

No it doesn't. Plenty of battered women defend their abusers. That doesn't make it right.

My recollection and reading of the multiple reports, etc of the Phillips incident did not suggest at all that she was a 'battered woman' but rather a loud argument took place (I believe Frost was NOT hiding in the closet) and ultimately the report said Phillips pulled the woman out of the apartment and down the stairs using a handful of her hair as a grab hold. I don't recall any report she was in fact injured or required any medical treatment. Was it wrong? Of course. Did he beat the living sh t out of her or break any bones or put her or Frost in the hospital or any other property damage done? Not that I recall being reported. He was charged with misdemeanor assault or disturbing the peace or some similar. I don't recall any other prior offenses or subsequent offenses either.

In my view, he should not have been summarily dismissed from the team based on the above 'facts' so far as I recall them being reported. There are far more serious actions being taken, probably every other week, amongst football players, coaches, professors and spouses, etc. all over the country. Was Phillips wrong? YES, YES, YES! Nobody argues that. Nobody as far as I know dismisses wrongful conduct by anybody, except possibly our politicians who simply get away with any sorts of horrible stuff without any consequences except getting richer maybe.

If winning were the ONLY issue, Phillips would have been back on the team within a couple weeks, not several months after a long challenging season. I will always believe Osborne and others involved tried their best to 'do the right things' as events came and went over many years. Nobody is perfect. I think we all must remember that. I dare say there are many many many 'good' people who have done bad things once in a while. It is the good intentions and effort to make one's life better that must be weighed.

 

[StPaulHusker]

For the record, I never stated he should have been kicked off the team. I said TO handled it wrong.

I've generally agreed with you on this situation but I'm curious about this comment. LP only played one more game at Nebraska. So about the only thing to do differently would have been to kick him off the team.

He played more than just one game. He was suspended after game 2. He played 3 more including the NCG.

Here is what I felt should have happened if he wasn't going to be kicked off the team.

There was no need to let him play at all the rest of the year. Definitely no need to let him start the Fiesta Bowl. He could have been reinstated and been allowed to practice. and not participate in any games. If structure was truly what he needed, then he had it and wasn't going to be rewarded with playing time.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Bo had a wife beater on his staff, I never saw the out pouring of hate toward him. What if he had killed her right before the bowl game? Would that have left a stain on our image?? Nobody is perfect in this life. A little fender bender nearly 10 years after his last offense does not need to get him discarded for someone else that likely has skeletons in their closet.

This is easily fixable. Riley suspends him for a few months to send a message to him and the players that nobody is above the rules and the AD redoes his contract to stipulate NO Alcohol consumption for the remainder of the time he is employed by the University, or it is automatic dismissal.

Different scenarios because the offense occurred later. And not relevant.

We already talked about TO. You have your facts wrong. It's a bad idea going with a version of events based on a single prosecutor's press release.

Tom hid a gun in his desk for Abdul Muhammad, he wrote about it in his book. My facts are facts. You just deny and put your opinion out as fact.

I think you missed what CM said - he only speaks FACTS

There's an irony in you calling me out while we are still waiting for a link to the "fact" that TO hid a gun for Muhammad.

the si hit piece has a quote from osborne about the incident. and it was tyrone wiliams gun that steele and osborne hid.

In contrast to Saber, you at least seem to know some of the "facts" around that incident, like who was involved.

Now I recommend you look for the additional information that the prosecutor didn't release in his press statements.

Some of those facts will include that TO and his staff immediately notified police of the gun, kept it secure (didn't try to "hide" it or destroy it) and held it for only two days, turning it over immediately when a police officer came to retrieve it.

If you go only off of an SI article and Lacey's statements, I understand why you come away with the impression that TO obstructed justice.

But, one only has to ask: was he or his staff even investigated for, let alone charged with, obstruction or hiding evidence? The answer is a resounding no. AND, Williams was not guilty of the underlying crime allegedly involving the gun.

People need to stop believing that prosecutor press releases are gospel.

Taking Osborne's word for everything is great if you believe he has unimpeachable character. He's shown he doesn't, and therefore should be scrutinized heavily, as should his statements and actions.

When you treat coaches like infallible gods, taking their word only, you get situations like Art Briles and Joe Paterno. Those aren't mistakes I'd like to see replicated at Nebraska. Stop putting coaches on pedestals, and start looking at them as they are. Use all the facts.

I'm not taking Osborne's word on everything.

Hiding a gun is a felony. Was TO, his staff or anyone else investigated - let alone charged with - this crime?

Or is it all a vast coverup that only a single prosecutor would air?

Paterno went 30 years letting some guy butt rape boys in the shower and never said anything and was never questioned. This is all the point Knapp is making. Your point on TO not being investigated or charged for this doesnt mean he shouldntve been and is absolved of all possible wrong doing. fact is, no one for sure really knows. This topic is like anything else. Opinion vs opinion.

 

[StPaulHusker]

No one is perfect. The question is, do you consistently apply the correct reasoning even if the result isn't always right or preferred. It's literally what the inscription on the stadium means.

You realize that inscription was put there before we were a winning program?

Yep.

I ask again, does your analysis of the handling of LP change at all if you find out that Kate McEwen and her attorney thought he should be reinstated?

No it doesn't. Plenty of battered women defend their abusers. That doesn't make it right.

My recollection and reading of the multiple reports, etc of the Phillips incident did not suggest at all that she was a 'battered woman' but rather a loud argument took place (I believe Frost was NOT hiding in the closet) and ultimately the report said Phillips pulled the woman out of the apartment and down the stairs using a handful of her hair as a grab hold. I don't recall any report she was in fact injured or required any medical treatment. Was it wrong? Of course. Did he beat the living sh t out of her or break any bones or put her or Frost in the hospital or any other property damage done? Not that I recall being reported. He was charged with misdemeanor assault or disturbing the peace or some similar. I don't recall any other prior offenses or subsequent offenses either.

In my view, he should not have been summarily dismissed from the team based on the above 'facts' so far as I recall them being reported. There are far more serious actions being taken, probably every other week, amongst football players, coaches, professors and spouses, etc. all over the country. Was Phillips wrong? YES, YES, YES! Nobody argues that. Nobody as far as I know dismisses wrongful conduct by anybody, except possibly our politicians who simply get away with any sorts of horrible stuff without any consequences except getting richer maybe.

If winning were the ONLY issue, Phillips would have been back on the team within a couple weeks, not several months after a long challenging season. I will always believe Osborne and others involved tried their best to 'do the right things' as events came and went over many years. Nobody is perfect. I think we all must remember that. I dare say there are many many many 'good' people who have done bad things once in a while. It is the good intentions and effort to make one's life better that must be weighed.

Would you prefer I type "abused" instead of battered. I think anyone glossing over this forgets that an assault happened.

 

[StPaulHusker]

Kate McEwen did not make a plea that Lawrence Philips should be allowed back on the team. The University offered her round-the-clock protection in the wake of Phillips' attack. She left Nebraska after we failed to honor her scholarship.

Because she "didn't show progress in her basketball abilities."

I wonder what circumstances might have gotten in the way of her succeeding...

That was an editorialization in the article you're referring to. Not a quote from the team. And, I thought that she finished her academic career at NU (will need to verify that). Personally, I think her schollie should have been renewed, because I don't believe in pulling a scholarship from any athlete who is academically eligible and has not broken team rules.

Quote from the article:

Angela Beck, the coach of the Nebraska women's team, said yesterday that she had told McEwen recently that her athletic scholarship would not continue because of a lack of progress in her play.

 

[huskerfan2000]

No one is perfect. The question is, do you consistently apply the correct reasoning even if the result isn't always right or preferred. It's literally what the inscription on the stadium means.

You realize that inscription was put there before we were a winning program?

Yep.

I ask again, does your analysis of the handling of LP change at all if you find out that Kate McEwen and her attorney thought he should be reinstated?

No it doesn't. Plenty of battered women defend their abusers. That doesn't make it right.

She wasn't defending him or his actions.

Why is it morally "right" to kick LP off the team with no chance of reinstatement?

For the record, I never stated he should have been kicked off the team. I said TO handled it wrong.

For the record you said this..

Osborne had zero integrity with regards to LP.

 

[knapplc]

I'd say "Osborne had zero integrity with regards to LP" is a pretty accurate statement.

 

[marko polo]

Once we get over this notion that our winning way is so much more special and unique than anyother, that's when we'll truly have a Nebraska way.

I used to be like you. I lived during the 90's. My hard attention began right at about 1991. Pretty damn convenient right? My childhood being that of nothing but success? Then these harder times hit. Firing coaches with wining records. and I see this nebraska way being brought up. So i started thinking. What is it? And the more I think, and see everything going on, and analyzing all that has happened in the past and the what coulda beens had we lost a game or two extra here and there, or won an extra game here and there, tells me that the Nebraska Way is nothing more than just the winning way. it's really that simple.

This is my post from the other thread.......

Thats what you want to believe it means. And you can bet your a$$, that had Osborne never won titles, there wouldntve been all this "back to Nebraska way" stuff. And had Callahan or Bo won some sort of championship, it wouldve been restored in the blink of an eye. Winning. That's all it is. Just winning. We like to think as a fanbase we've won in some unique way. Like we took a harder road than most. Running game. Walk-ons, etc. When it's probably the exact opposite. We used those things cuz they were the best fit for us to make winning easiest. Running a program and cheering for a program is not stoic or special. it goes on everywhere. in every sport. You win, you get to keep going. you lose, youre out and we go in another direction. i think we're a bit blinded by the fact that we had the same coach for 25 years with consistent results, and think everything was alway hunky dory, and use that to legitimize this fictional Nebraska Way. When in fact, it wasnt always hunky dory, and on more than one occasion, that so called Nebraska Way almost died long before the Nebraska Way actually became what it is now perceived to be. If Osborne loses the Liberty bowl and gets fired, leaves for Colorado, or steps aside after 1990, and Nebraska doesnt win to nearly the tick that they did, then there is no Nebraska Way.

And yes, CM I have read Scott Frost's commentary on this. Ive read more books and watched more documentaries on Epply, Stark, Osborne, Devaney etc. to make your head spin. I could pamper you with more history and info of the top of my head that make you go crosseyes. But here's the great thing about humanity. Frost doesnt speak for me. I can develop my own opinion. And I have the confidenece and arrogance that my opinion is right. And Frost is another interesting cog in the Nebraska way discussion. The savior. The gold child. The one who didnt want to be here to begin with. That only came back cuz he figured out fit. And probably one who has no interest in returning.

These values you describe are winning values. They were established as tools to win. Devaney and Osborne, while revered as angels, were competitive sonsabitches. They werent doing some holier than thow methods to make everyone feel good. They were doing things that fit and could win. Its just a concept I look at from afar thinking we're really not anymore unique than anyone else who wants to win. And these last 15 years have finally exposed that. It's a concept that was manufactured by 40 years of consistency and a blind assumption that it was ALWAYS great.

Was there a point in all this?

 

[StPaulHusker]

No one is perfect. The question is, do you consistently apply the correct reasoning even if the result isn't always right or preferred. It's literally what the inscription on the stadium means.

You realize that inscription was put there before we were a winning program?

Yep.

I ask again, does your analysis of the handling of LP change at all if you find out that Kate McEwen and her attorney thought he should be reinstated?

No it doesn't. Plenty of battered women defend their abusers. That doesn't make it right.

She wasn't defending him or his actions.

Why is it morally "right" to kick LP off the team with no chance of reinstatement?

For the record, I never stated he should have been kicked off the team. I said TO handled it wrong.

For the record you said this..

Osborne had zero integrity with regards to LP.

I've said both. And I stand by both