The Offending Posts Commentary Thread

I think you're all confusing facts and truth with beliefs and truthiness.

Facts are objective and indisputable. A thousand years from now they will be the same. Truth encompasses many facts, and defines reality. Just because someone believes or claims something as true does not make it true in reality.

Beliefs are what is subjective and change. 400 years ago some people believed the earth was flat. Them stating their belief as fact does not make it truth, fact, or reality. Facts, truth, and reality don't care about how you feel (truthiness) they just are.

 
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ZRod said:
I think you're all confusing facts and truth with beliefs and truthiness.

Facts are objective and indisputable. A thousand years from now they will be the same. Truth encompasses many facts, and defines reality. Just because someone believes or claims something as true does not make it true in reality.

Beliefs are what is subjective and change. 400 years ago some people believed the earth was flat. Them stating their belief as fact does not make it truth, fact, or reality. Facts, truth, and reality don't care about how you feel (truthiness) they just are.
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Perspective, proximity and hindsight play a part as to which of your 4 it is...

 
ZRod said:
Why is it that you are incapable of intelligent conversation?
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I'm quite capable, if there's actually a conversation to be had.  I've found with you that's typically not the case.  You have the mentality of someone who seriously expects to change someone's mind all the while pretending yours can be changed too.

I'm also quite stubborn, I understand the shtick.

It's going to be over 100 degrees today, I don't have the energy or time for a slap fight with you over one of the most narcissistic anger work politicians in the game today.

 
ZRod said:
I think you're all confusing facts and truth with beliefs and truthiness.

Facts are objective and indisputable. A thousand years from now they will be the same. Truth encompasses many facts, and defines reality. Just because someone believes or claims something as true does not make it true in reality.

Beliefs are what is subjective and change. 400 years ago some people believed the earth was flat. Them stating their belief as fact does not make it truth, fact, or reality. Facts, truth, and reality don't care about how you feel (truthiness) they just are.
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We literally already went over this.  The Earth wasn't flat but people believed it was, as a fact ergo the earth was flat was the truth.  New data came to light, the facts changed ergo so did the truth.

Wording it differently just to argue more isn't going to help.  See above.

 
Redux said:
We literally already went over this.  The Earth wasn't flat but people believed it was, as a fact ergo the earth was flat was the truth.  New data came to light, the facts changed ergo so did the truth.

Wording it differently just to argue more isn't going to help.  See above.
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No. Just because someone believes something to be a fact or truth doesn't make it so. Again, beliefs are not facts and feelings are not truth. Facts are a universal constant, not a variable.

The fact is actually; that people believed the earth was flat, not that it was actually flat. Hence JJ's word play on the previous page. Facts never change, the earth has always been round. People's beliefs and opinions, or I guess you could even say knowledge, are what change.

 
Redux said:
I'm quite capable, if there's actually a conversation to be had.  I've found with you that's typically not the case.  You have the mentality of someone who seriously expects to change someone's mind all the while pretending yours can be changed too.

I'm also quite stubborn, I understand the shtick.

It's going to be over 100 degrees today, I don't have the energy or time for a slap fight with you over one of the most narcissistic anger work politicians in the game today.
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My mind has been changed many times, and is actually in the process of being change again with BRBs discussion on taxes. You could probably convince me that AOC is a hypocrite if you actually presented an argument.

You posted bulls#!t. I called you out with proof but you don't seem to care. You'd rather just try to prove you have a penis and throw around douchie bro insults. Whatevs.

 
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ZRod said:
No. Just because someone believes something to be a fact or truth doesn't make it so. Again, beliefs are not facts and feelings are not truth. Facts are a universal constant, not a variable.

The fact is actually; that people believed the earth was flat, not that it was actually flat. Hence JJ's word play on the previous page. Facts never change, the earth has always been round. People's beliefs and opinions, or I guess you could even say knowledge, are what change.
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Knowledge changed is jusy rewording that the facts changed.  You're still just wording it differently to argue.

 
ZRod said:
You posted bulls#!t. I called you out with proof but you don't seem to care. You'd rather just try to prove you have a penis and throw around douchie bro insults. Whatevs.
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Lmao, what even is this?  How am I trying to prove I have a penis?   :lol:

Keep simping pal

 
ZRod said:
No. Just because someone believes something to be a fact or truth doesn't make it so. Again, beliefs are not facts and feelings are not truth. Facts are a universal constant, not a variable.

The fact is actually; that people believed the earth was flat, not that it was actually flat. Hence JJ's word play on the previous page. Facts never change, the earth has always been round. People's beliefs and opinions, or I guess you could even say knowledge, are what change.
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Hey, this is a pretty interesting conversation.

By this logic, we are all currently living a lie, because it's a certainty that some things we accept as truths are not what they seem. To science's credit, they understand that, and adapt to "facts" as they become available. While that evolving understanding of reality isn't perfect, it's generally preferable to self-serving mythologies. 

Facts are a variable as long as we don't know what we don't know.  Which always turns out to be quite a bit. Some things we will never know. That's okay, too. 

I'm sure there were both average people and scientific geniuses who figured out the Earth wasn't flat, and it wasn't the center of the Universe either. But the most powerful governing force -- the church -- had a vested interest in controlling the narrative. And yeah -- they killed anyone unwilling to recant the facts. 

I don't know where the world is at at the moment. It's a very weird time: unprecedented access to knowledge and a serious decline in wisdom. 

 
ZRod said:
No. Just because someone believes something to be a fact or truth doesn't make it so. Again, beliefs are not facts and feelings are not truth. Facts are a universal constant, not a variable.

The fact is actually; that people believed the earth was flat, not that it was actually flat. Hence JJ's word play on the previous page. Facts never change, the earth has always been round. People's beliefs and opinions, or I guess you could even say knowledge, are what change.
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I agree here, and can I add that lately with Covid-19 we hear much about how “the Science has changed” when opinions on certain matters change.  No, the Science didn’t change.  Our understanding of the science changed.  
 

 
Redux said:
Knowledge changed is jusy rewording that the facts changed.  You're still just wording it differently to argue.
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Definitons matter (like murder). You're confusing facts with beliefs or feelings. Facts are the reality of the universe as it exists. They are the affirmative. They cannot change.

Beliefs, feelings, and knowledge can change.

 
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Archy1221 said:
I agree here, and can I add that lately with Covid-19 we hear much about how “the Science has changed” when opinions on certain matters change.  No, the Science didn’t change.  Our understanding of the science changed.  
 
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This is fair summation.

 
Redux said:
Lmao, what even is this?  How am I trying to prove I have a penis?   :lol:

Keep simping pal
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It's a d!(k measuring contest with you. Always.

You call me a simp. What's simping? You're asserting that I'm some how a b!^@h for AOC because I called your bulls#!t. I don't like her, I don't want to date her, I'm not a fan of her. She's a politician who is outside the norm with good and bad ideas.

 
So I’m confused. The world used to be flat and now it’s a sphere??? I woulda thought it was always a sphere (fact) and what actually changed was people’s beliefs, knowledge and understanding of the fact.

Or maybe I’m not the one that is confused…

 
ZRod said:
Definitons matter (like murder). You're confusing facts with beliefs or feelings. Facts are the reality of the universe as it exists. They are the affirmative. They cannot change.

Beliefs, feelings, and knowledge can change.
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The definition of murder only matters to a courtroom, and apparently a bunch of shmucks on a message board.  When someone guns someone else who is unarmed down in cold blood, it's murder.  Was the murder justified, that's open to debate.  And this is a really stupid debate at that.  Killin is killin, arguing the definition of it is dumb especially in this instance.  But you brought it up again here because you think you got one over on me that time and you want to stroke your ego I guess.

The rest of this is literally taking a discussion that happened without you, putting it in a hat and pulling it back out like it's a new argument.

 
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