Jason Sitoke
New member
I believe your original point was that you saw no logical reason to NOT belittle people. I think doing something that serves no real purpose would seem illogical.
The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)
- Thread starter knapplc
- Start date
knapplc
Active member
Jason Sitoke
New member
knapplc
Active member
It has the same logic as any other disagreement in P&R. People b!^@h at BigRedN for his super Christian thread all the time. You think he's going to stop?
I don't see why this gets any pushback. At all. Especially from anyone who actively participates in P&R.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101#
The evidence
“Starting from back in November, we’ve had a lot of really important studies that showed us that memory B cells and memory T cells were forming in response to natural infection,” says Gandhi. Studies are also showing, she says, that these memory cells will respond by producing antibodies to the variants at hand.91011
Gandhi included a list of some 20 references on natural immunity to covid in a long Twitter thread supporting the durability of both vaccine and infection induced immunity.12 “I stopped adding papers to it in December because it was getting so long,” she tells The BMJ.
But the studies kept coming. A National Institutes of Health (NIH) funded study from La Jolla Institute for Immunology found “durable immune responses” in 95% of the 200 participants up to eight months after infection.13 One of the largest studies to date, published in Science in February 2021, found that although antibodies declined over 8 months, memory B cells increased over time, and the half life of memory CD8+ and CD4+ T cells suggests a steady presence.9
Real world data have also been supportive.14 Several studies (in Qatar,15 England,16 Israel,17 and the US18) have found infection rates at equally low levels among people who are fully vaccinated and those who have previously had covid-19. Cleveland Clinic surveyed its more than 50 000 employees to compare four groups based on history of SARS-CoV-2 infection and vaccination status.18 Not one of over 1300 unvaccinated employees who had been previously infected tested positive during the five months of the study. Researchers concluded that that cohort “are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.” In Israel, researchers accessed a database of the entire population to compare the efficacy of vaccination with previous infection and found nearly identical numbers. “Our results question the need to vaccinate previously infected individuals,” they concluded.17
As covid cases surged in Israel this summer, the Ministry of Health reported the numbers by immunity status. Between 5 July and 3 August, just 1% of weekly new cases were in people who had previously had covid-19. Given that 6% of the population are previously infected and unvaccinated, “these numbers look very low,” says Dvir Aran, a biomedical data scientist at the Technion–Israel Institute of Technology, who has been analysing Israeli data on vaccine effectiveness and provided weekly ministry reports to The BMJ. While Aran is cautious about drawing definitive conclusions, he acknowledged “the data suggest that the recovered have better protection than people who were vaccinated.”
Let me know what you think
One reason is because you are lumping all unvaccinated people into the same group which is actually anti-science.
Jason Sitoke
New member
So you stated you believed there's no logical reason NOT to do something. I gave you at least one. You have not refuted it, and instead have apparently gotten defensive and resorted to 'Tu Quoque', which also fittingly is a fallacy of logic.
knapplc
Active member
So you're saying we can't make fun of the unvaccinated, but everything else in P&R is fair game. Cool.
Jason Sitoke
New member
knapplc
Active member
Do you think it's logical to keep presenting this argument when clearly I will not change my mind? If so, why do you persist?
Jason Sitoke
New member
Well, I didn't pose the question if what I do is logical. You did. I'm human, so of course I understand that humans get understandably frustrated with things and people. However, the easiest way to ensure someone won't agree with you is to be utterly insufferable in the way you communicate, and after 18 months of watching people smugly flame each other on Twitter, it just seems pointless. And yes, illogical.
knapplc
Active member
But you're flaming me here. "Do as I say, not as I do" isn't exactly a convincing argument, is it?
And this board is full of people flaming each other. Every day. I happen to feel it's OK to flame a segment of the population who are overcrowding our ICUs, providing a fertile breeding ground for the virus, and furthering the pandemic. I'm not going to be dissuaded from that stance.
Jason Sitoke
New member
I don't see where I flamed you, but I can't argue with your feelings. Sorry.
And I never moralized with you about it, or admonished you for doing it. I said it wasn't logical. Clear?
knapplc
Active member
"I can't argue with your feelings" is another flame. You're not demonstrating what you want me to demonstrate. Isn't that funny?
Guy Chamberlin
Active member
Belittling and shaming is hard to resist. I do it myself, knowing it doesn't work at all.
Interestingly enough, calmly relayed facts and corrections don't seem to work either.
Personal experience --- having a gay son, a mom die of COVID, a friend go off the insurrectionist deep-end -- does a lot more to chip away at an ingrained belief system.
I'm not sure what to do about the people who believe themselves soldiers in an ideological war, listening to leaders who squeeze everything into the false narrative that makes the war possible.