The Right to Carry a Gun

kk..not sure about this so someone will probably jump in and tell me i am wrong....but doesn't the untied states have both the least restrictive gun laws in the world and also the highest rate of mass shootings in the world?   if that is true i believe that there just might be a correlation there.

 
jsneb83 said:
I'm not saying it is or isn't, I'm just saying other countries actually give them the healthcare they need
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Other countries use the metric system. But, like mental illness, whether a country uses the metric system or not is irrelevant to a conversation about America's rampant gun violence.

 
JJ Husker said:
 In my mind, there 3 basic types of gun violence and two of them have shown increases with the mass shootings obviously standing out.
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I grieve over those, as we see students and other innocents scatter in fear of some twisted up person.  What wrecks my efforts to focus on that as the major violence with guns problem in our country, though, are the numbers:  Thousands are dying and being severely injured in our mostly African American inner cities, by the dozens every single day.  Yes, we can't ignore those mostly white grinning freaks with assault rifles firing at our children and concert goers, etc.   We probably need to find out what they have in common as to many things other than mostly being white males.  Perhaps they've felt left out, bullied, etc.  I don't know.  But there's a holocaust going on in East St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, and Baltimore.  Sometimes it's 40 or 50 people shot on one weekend. 

None of it can be ignored by thinking and caring people, but all of it seems to be ignored by the gun industry;  they're into sales.  Can we go to them for help?  Hell no, they begin the "mental illness" mantra instantly.  We can't do analogies about drugs being controlled, because they then just turn the conversation to people like me and you:  law abiding citizens who should not be "punished" by new gun laws.

 
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Huckleberry Muhammad said:
We probably need to find out what they have in common
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Speaking specifically about the inner cities, there's a whole host of issues they're dealing with that have very little to do with the kind of person that shoots up a mall or a concert.

But the one thing they all have in common is easy access to guns. It really is as simple as that.

 
The correlation between mental illness and gun violence seems weak to non existent to me. Mental illness rates are somewhat high in the U.S., but it is also high in Norway, Sweden, The Netherlands, Denmark, France, Spain, Australia, and Canada as well.

This tells me there is either no correlation at all, or these countries with high rates of mental illness and few gun violence issues have few gun violence issues because of their gun laws.

And let’s say there is a weak correlation - shouldn’t we take both approaches? Make it a bit harder to get a gun, and easier/cheaper to get treatment for mental illness?

 
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Moiraine said:
The correlation between mental illness and gun violence seems weak to non existent to me. Mental illness rates are somewhat high in the U.S., but it is also high in Norway, Sweden, The Netherlands, Denmark, France, Spain, Australia, and Canada as well.

This tells me there is either no correlation at all, or these countries with high rates of mental illness and few gun violence issues have few gun violence issues because of their gun laws.

And let’s say there is a weak correlation - shouldn’t we take both approaches? Make it a bit harder to get a gun, and easier/cheaper to get treatment for mental illness?
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the NRA now hates you for saying that.   

 
Moiraine said:
The correlation between mental illness and gun violence seems weak to non existent to me. Mental illness rates are somewhat high in the U.S., but it is also high in Norway, Sweden, The Netherlands, Denmark, France, Spain, Australia, and Canada as well.

This tells me there is either no correlation at all, or these countries with high rates of mental illness and few gun violence issues have few gun violence issues because of their gun laws.

And let’s say there is a weak correlation - shouldn’t we take both approaches? Make it a bit harder to get a gun, and easier/cheaper to get treatment for mental illness?
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For the sake of the mentally ill, yes, we should obviously make it easier to get help/treatment. That's the simple, humane thing to do.

But for those expecting that to have any impact on gun violence, they're going to be disappointed. But at least some good would come out of that disappointment.

 
knapplc said:
Speaking specifically about the inner cities, there's a whole host of issues they're dealing with that have very little to do with the kind of person that shoots up a mall or a concert.

But the one thing they all have in common is easy access to guns. It really is as simple as that.
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I agree, the problem of inner city violence is really not related to what causes a person to shoot up a school. And I understand that we have easy access the guns but it's not that simple and doesn't begin to explain what causes a person to do something like that.

There are lots of contributing factors but easy access to guns is only a means to an end. I tried to make this point earlier but you were more interested in scoring an internet smart a$$ point than replying to the actual substance. In your opinion, what is the root cause of these mass shooters?  You and I and everyone in this country has easy access to guns yet the vast majority of us don't go shoot up a mall. So what's different between us and them? It has to be something (s) other than easy access and a culture that worships guns. It may not be mental illness but I guess I don't know what else to call such disturbing and antisocial behavior. It sure isn't the logical, inevitable result of having easy access to guns or we all would be doing it.

 
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JJ Husker said:
I agree, the problem of inner city violence is really not related to what causes a person to shoot up a school. And I understand that we have easy access the guns but it's not that simple and doesn't begin to explain what causes a person to do something like that.

There are lots of contributing factors but easy access to guns is only a means to an end. I tried to make this point earlier but you were more interested in scoring an internet smart a$$ point than replying to the actual substance. In your opinion, what is the root cause of these mass shooters?  You and I and everyone in this country has easy access to guns yet the vast majority of us don't go shoot up a mall. So what's different between us and them? It has to be something (s) other than easy access and a culture that worships guns. It may not be mental illness but I guess I don't know what else to call such disturbing and antisocial behavior. It sure isn't the logical, inevitable result of having easy access to guns or we all would be doing it.
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It is mental illness...it is just not an illness that Dr. Laura has created a name for as of yet.

 
knapplc said:
Mental

Illness

Is

Not

The

Culprit

To

This

Problem
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You seem really eager to dismiss it completely and only acknowledge that guns are the sole reason for gun violence.  That guns existing are the only reason people commit violence against others.  It's not culture. It's not stress. It's not upbringing.  It's not mental health.  It's just guns that switch some light on for people and that makes them shoot other people.  To each their own I guess.

 
JJ Husker said:
I tried to make this point earlier but you were more interested in scoring an internet smart a$$ point than replying to the actual substance.
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Can you stop with these personal attacks? This is childish.

I've made my point, it's easy access to guns and a culture that worships them. You don't have to agree, but this kind of nonsense belongs in the Shed.

 
knapplc said:
Can you stop with these personal attacks? This is childish.

I've made my point, it's easy access to guns and a culture that worships them. You don't have to agree, but this kind of nonsense belongs in the Shed.
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You're funny. So when someone clearly demonstrates the problem is obviously not as simple as easy access and culture you reply something unrelated and unfounded about personal attacks.  I thought you may want to try being serious by discussing the topic and possibly consider some other points of view. I guess I was wrong.

 
JJ Husker said:
You're funny. So when someone clearly demonstrates the problem is obviously not as simple as easy access and culture you reply something unrelated and unfounded about personal attacks.  I thought you may want to try being serious by discussing the topic and possibly consider some other points of view. I guess I was wrong.
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Did you really do that though? I didn't see any sort of clear demonstration. 

 
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