What is the future of the Republican Party?

[JJ Husker]

This is what it coulda been.  We can only dream though.  Sighhhh

I wonder if people understand what has caused this and who has benefited from it. The cause is a combination of spending beyond our means and tax breaks for the rich. Historically the spending was primarily by dems but lately a lot more attributable to Rs. And the tax breaks, well, we all know the Rs have made sure those first and foremost benefit the very rich. The result of the federal debt is a collective higher standard of living for US citizens at the expense of the rest of the world and our own financial solvency. There are some benefits to being the preeminent economy in the world, aka our standard of living. Which BTW Trump policy is changing. Unfortunately the trade off has been the huge national debt and the fact that $105,000 per capita debt has not been equitably distributed amongst all of our citizens. The top 1% and 2% have reaped way more than their fair share of the benefit. Unneeded tax cuts and spending what you don’t have are a bad combination. It’s exponentially worse when all of the benefit gets funneled to the top.

And people wonder why so many feel the corrective action is to increase taxes on the ultra wealthy (those who have benefited the most) and to get spending under control, but not in the dog & pony show way that Trump & Elon has done with DOGE. Can you believe, after all that bulls#!t, government spending is still increasing?

 

[Archy1221]

The cause is a combination of spending beyond our means and tax breaks for the rich

“Tax breaks for everyone who pays income tax” you mean.

 

[JJ Husker]

“Tax breaks for everyone who pays income tax” you mean.

I’ll assume you understand the basic concept I was talking about. That our standard of living has been higher than it should’ve otherwise been because we are $105k per capita in debt.

And yes, maybe “tax breaks” was the wrong terminology to use. How about a not high enough tax rate for the ultra rich. I’m not looking for agreement from you, just trying to explain my point better. And maybe, if our system wasn’t so disparate, lower income people could graduate up the scale to paying more in taxes.

Personally I find it hard to blame the lower and middle class for the wealth gap when the rich are doing exponentially better. And contrary to one of your deeply held beliefs, it’s not simply because the poor are taking advantage of the system.

 

[Archy1221]

Personally I find it hard to blame the lower and middle class for the wealth gap when the rich are doing exponentially better. And contrary to one of your deeply held beliefs, it’s not simply because the poor are taking advantage of the system.

I for one am not blaming the lower and middle class for a wealth gap and it’s not my deeply held belief that the poor take advantage of the system to basically stay poor.  
 

I have said before that the biggest reason for the increase in wealth gap has been because of stock market equities increases.   
 

Billionaires and 9 figure millionaire have become that, usually not because the salaries they have, but because of the  ownership shares in companies they have accumulated.  I have also argued that whatever stock grants C level and upper management gets, a same percentage should be offered to every employee.  Similar to health care options for employees.  Same standard for everyone to get options  

 

[JJ Husker]

I for one am not blaming the lower and middle class for a wealth gap and it’s not my deeply held belief that the poor take advantage of the system to basically stay poor.  
 

I have said before that the biggest reason for the increase in wealth gap has been because of stock market equities increases.   
 

Billionaires and 9 figure millionaire have become that, usually not because the salaries they have, but because of the  ownership shares in companies they have accumulated.  I have also argued that whatever stock grants C level and upper management gets, a same percentage should be offered to every employee.  Similar to health care options for employees.  Same standard for everyone to get options  

So you do acknowledge that tax cuts provide a larger benefit to the rich than they do to the middle and lower class. And you also understand that there are two things that contribute to the national debt, spending and tax cuts. Good. Wanted to make sure we were in agreement before the discussion got spun off in another direction.

Now, I won’t disagree that a large portion of the wealth gap is due to equity increases in the market. But gee I wonder, who is that can afford to own companies and stock that can realize those equity increases? It certainly isn’t the lower or middle class folks that struggle just to keep the lights on and food in their belly. So anyway you slice it, the system is currently built for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer. Doesn’t matter if it’s tax rates, equity increases or what. Billionaires and 9 figure millionaires can and should be paying a higher rate. You don’t get that wealthy because you earned it or deserve it.

 

[Archy1221]

So you do acknowledge that tax cuts provide a larger benefit to the rich than they do to the middle and lower class.

The wealthiest pay a much higher tax amount.   In real dollars, the always gonna be a larger benefit even if the percentage of tax cut is lower for the highest 1-5%. 
 

And you also understand that there are two things that contribute to the national debt, spending and tax cuts

Well actually, spending more than the revenue intake contributes to the debt.  
 

Tax cuts don’t automatically contribute to the debt in the longer run because they generally increase tax receipts by making a bigger pie outpacing the initial lost revenue the budget was used to.  

The tax cuts also wouldn’t contribute to debt if short term corresponding spending cuts took place.   

But gee I wonder, who is that can afford to own companies and stock that can realize those equity increases?

I know more than a handful of couples that are wealth millionaires before age 50 who have a combined income of between $80-$100,000 at the high point.  They spent within their means, contributed to 401k’s.  
 

I also know more than a few people (including you) who did not come from means and own their own business (restaurants, hvac, Healthcare practice, electrician, financial planners, etc…)  Tons of people who came from lower socio-economic backgrounds own businesses

As for the people at the middle and lower rungs of a public company, it’s why I said corporate law should be changed to say if anyone gets awarded stock options as compensation, then every employee should get awarded at the same percentage of salary level.   
 

Billionaires and 9 figure millionaires can and should be paying a higher rate. You don’t get that wealthy because you earned it or deserve it.

Most of them do get that rich because they earned it.  Do you know how much wealth and for how many people Bill Gates created, or Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, etc……

As far as deserves it go…..that’s an individual assessment.   How much is the most someone deserves?   At what point do you just want to tax their wealth at 100% and take it away since they don’t deserve above a certain amount?  What tax rate do you want them to pay when they make $50 million a year?   Should people be paying 90% tax rate after $10 million?  That’s way more than enough to live on and certainly in your view people don’t deserve to have more than that.  
 

What are the numbers?  Next tell me what that will do to productivity?  

 

[JJ Husker]

Interesting article

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-100-days-destroy-america_n_68113057e4b0d4c3d8e32149/amp

In his first 100 days, President Donald Trump has taken a bludgeon to the government, civil society, civil rights laws, efforts at desegregation, foreign alliances, anti-corruption law and norms, the entire global economy, and the country’s very self-conception as born from the idea that “all men are created equal.” 
 

But for all the questioning of whether Trump knows what he is doing, this is not an accident, or a byproduct of other goals: Destroying America as we know it was always the point of the second Trump administration. That country was born in the 20th century, and Trump’s second term agenda, led by a group of the ideologues and oligarchs who backed his reelection, aims to repeal the 20th century.

 

[JJ Husker]

The wealthiest pay a much higher tax amount.   In real dollars, the always gonna be a larger benefit even if the percentage of tax cut is lower for the highest 1-5%. 
 

Well actually, spending more than the revenue intake contributes to the debt.  
 

Tax cuts don’t automatically contribute to the debt in the longer run because they generally increase tax receipts by making a bigger pie outpacing the initial lost revenue the budget was used to.  

The tax cuts also wouldn’t contribute to debt if short term corresponding spending cuts took place.   

I know more than a handful of couples that are wealth millionaires before age 50 who have a combined income of between $80-$100,000 at the high point.  They spent within their means, contributed to 401k’s.  
 

I also know more than a few people (including you) who did not come from means and own their own business (restaurants, hvac, Healthcare practice, electrician, financial planners, etc…)  Tons of people who came from lower socio-economic backgrounds own businesses

As for the people at the middle and lower rungs of a public company, it’s why I said corporate law should be changed to say if anyone gets awarded stock options as compensation, then every employee should get awarded at the same percentage of salary level.   
 

Most of them do get that rich because they earned it.  Do you know how much wealth and for how many people Bill Gates created, or Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, etc……

As far as deserves it go…..that’s an individual assessment.   How much is the most someone deserves?   At what point do you just want to tax their wealth at 100% and take it away since they don’t deserve above a certain amount?  What tax rate do you want them to pay when they make $50 million a year?   Should people be paying 90% tax rate after $10 million?  That’s way more than enough to live on and certainly in your view people don’t deserve to have more than that.  
 

What are the numbers?  Next tell me what that will do to productivity?  

Hey I don’t have specific numbers or all the answers. But I do think I know a couple things. 1- The current way things are working is not working and this ever widening wealth gap is not sustainable. 2- Having committed some thought to it however, I don’t see a solution that doesn’t involve the ultra rich paying a higher rate than they are. Historically they have paid a higher rate and they seemed to do just fine with it.  Cutting needed government services and safety nets is not the answer just as surely as expecting the rich to pay for everything won’t work.

And yes, wasteful spending also needs to be eliminated. But wasteful is highly subjective and neither side has done a very good job of being able to sort the wheat from the chaff and the Trump administration has been absolutely horrible at it. They are only focused on anti-woke and re-engineering the social order, not on cutting truly wasteful spending. They’ve used the cuts they’ve implemented as punishment for people and institutions that don’t think like or agree with them.

 

[Archy1221]

Hey I don’t have specific numbers or all the answers. But I do think I know a couple things. 1- The current way things are working is not working and this ever widening wealth gap is not sustainable. 2- Having committed some thought to it however, I don’t see a solution that doesn’t involve the ultra rich paying a higher rate than they are. Historically they have paid a higher rate and they seemed to do just fine with it.  Cutting needed government services and safety nets is not the answer just as surely as expecting the rich to pay for everything won’t work

If what’s best for the country is raising the top rate to 40% and make a super top rate of 45% over $10 million per year, then fine.  But that ain’t gonna fix the problem when spending has gone up ON AVERAGE, almost 10% a year since Covid.   That ain’t sustainable no matter how much you wanna raise taxes.  So, I’m willing to vote for people that will raise taxes on the ultra wealthy as long as others are willing to vote for people who will normalize spending.  I will never be for a wealth tax however.  
 

Once the spending cuts, one thing I think we both know is the Medicare/Medicaid/SS will need to be cut because of the waste/fraud that happens with those services.   And as soon as someone proposes that, the dips#!ts governing the left are gonna claim we are trying to kill seniors, take healthcare ways, and kill SS.   On the flip side, as soon as someone proposes cutting military spending, cutting the VA fraud…the same thing will happen but with different dips#!ts squawking about it.  So unless that type of bulls#!t talk stops, what’s the point in raising taxes causes spending will never get to where we need it to get and all we end up with is a dysfunctional government taking more money it doesn’t deserve to have 

 

[JJ Husker]

If what’s best for the country is raising the top rate to 40% and make a super top rate of 45% over $10 million per year, then fine.  But that ain’t gonna fix the problem when spending has gone up ON AVERAGE, almost 10% a year since Covid.   That ain’t sustainable no matter how much you wanna raise taxes.  So, I’m willing to vote for people that will raise taxes on the ultra wealthy as long as others are willing to vote for people who will normalize spending.  I will never be for a wealth tax however.  
 

Once the spending cuts, one thing I think we both know is the Medicare/Medicaid/SS will need to be cut because of the waste/fraud that happens with those services.   And as soon as someone proposes that, the dips#!ts governing the left are gonna claim we are trying to kill seniors, take healthcare ways, and kill SS.   On the flip side, as soon as someone proposes cutting military spending, cutting the VA fraud…the same thing will happen but with different dips#!ts squawking about it.  So unless that type of bulls#!t talk stops, what’s the point in raising taxes causes spending will never get to where we need it to get and all we end up with is a dysfunctional government taking more money it doesn’t deserve to have 

Hey I agree. It will require both approaches.

We have to get back to our elected representatives representing us instead of themselves staying in power with their cushy gigs. That will require some revamping of how things have grown to be. The only way congress will change is if we institute some term limits, get money out of politics and get rid of gerrymandering districts. Even then it will be tough because the elected operate under different rules than the general public. But we might have a shot if we can put a dent in the special rules for the ruling class.

One thing is clear, the executive branch transforming into an autocracy is not the answer. The legislative and judicial branches have a function and s#!t don’t work when they cede their power to the President. Maybe you could work on your R brethren in congress and get them to do their job properly instead of simply cupping Trump’s balls as they swallow?

 

[Archy1221]

We have to get back to our elected representatives representing us instead of themselves staying in power with their cushy gigs.

This is one reason why I would be a one issue voter for anyone who runs on it regardless of party.   Term limits.  If a Democrat honestly says that its the most important issue to them, they probably get my vote.   
 

The legislative and judicial branches have a function and s#!t don’t work when they cede their power to the President.

I would also add though, that s#!t don’t work when District Court judges issue all these nationwide injunctions which encourages Judge shopping.  It’s a bad practice especially considering most of the injections get reversed.  
 

Maybe you could work on your R brethren in congress and get them to do their job properly instead of simply cupping Trump’s balls as they swallow?

Maybe.   Let me know when you have video of them doing so and I’ll write some strongly worded letters to stop that disgusting sexual stuff.  

 

[JJ Husker]

Maybe.   Let me know when you have video of them doing so and I’ll write some strongly worded letters to stop that disgusting sexual stuff.  

Oh dang, you must’ve missed the videos. It’s just one page back in this very thread. Pam Bondi, Chris Wright, JD Vance and Mike Waltz doing, figuratively of course, the disgusting sexual stuff. There’s also been plenty from other elected R officials if you are willing to classify it for what it really is.

 

[Archy1221]

Oh dang, you must’ve missed the videos. It’s just one page back in this very thread. Pam Bondi, Chris Wright, JD Vance and Mike Waltz doing, figuratively of course, the disgusting sexual stuff. There’s also been plenty from other elected R officials if you are willing to classify it for what it really is.

Oh, I thought you were meaning they were actually cupping his balls.  
 

It certainly is cringy to see videos like that though. 

 

[JJ Husker]

Oh, I thought you were meaning they were actually cupping his balls.  
 

It certainly is cringy to see videos like that though. 

Surely you did not want to see an actual, literal video of that  :lol:

Although I do hear Putin may have one involving Trump, some hookers and golden showers. And no, I won’t be scouring the internet for that one either.

 

[Archy1221]

Surely you did not want to see an actual, literal video of that  :lol:

Although I do hear Putin may have one involving Trump, some hookers and golden showers. And no, I won’t be scouring the internet for that one either.

It’s probably in Teach’s computer cache somewhere