Wisconsin Post Game Thread

Mavric said:
All that is assuming we are facing the same level of offense in both years.

This year we've played teams rated -0.26, 1.97, -0.98, 1.07, 0.67, -0.12 and 1.30 in Football Outsider's FEI ratings.  Average = 0.52

Last year we played teams rated 0.64, 0.47, 0.25, -0.17, -0.17, 1.22, -0.14, -0.64 and 0.25.  Average = 0.19

The difference between those two numbers is worth about 30 spots in the middle of the rankings.
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This site is intriguing, thanks for linking. When I calculated the average offense we faced according to these rankings it came out average of 46.7 ranked offense last season and on average 56.7 ranked offense this season. I think we can both post stats to swing the argument in our favor. I honestly don't think this defense looks any better right now than it did at the end of last season. I would take the defense we saw at end of last year OSU, ILL, MSU, Iowa games over the defense we've seen our last 4 games this season. The eye test for me says we had a below average defense last season and we've regressed or at best remained the same. Judging from Frost's comments yesterday I think he is getting sick of seeing opposing teams consistently putting 30+ on our defense as well. Look it doesn't mean we have to fire anyone -- but can't we all admit it has to be better? We HAVE to find a way to hold teams under 30 in conf play or we straight won't hit our goals. A 35-40 point game here and there - fine, but B1G teams averaging 34 points a game on us since this staff showed up, its not gonna cut it.

 
Mavric said:
I think "tweaks and nuances" from a really good defense would be a lot easier to accomplish that a complete transition from a terrible defense, right?

I'm not sure the transition from a 4-3 to a 4-2-5 is really all that much.  As you said, it's not really anything new, just more of something they've already been doing.  Plus, you know, they have some talent which helps.  Definitely not the same as 4-3 to 3-4.

I'm not sure Minnesota is quite as good as advertised.  They haven't had the greatest schedule have benefitted from facing some bad offenses.  They've played the #113, #95, #101, #121 and #99 offenses in the country plus an FCS team.  They got us without our starting QB and we've been inconsistent at best.  The last two games when they've actually played some good teams they benefited from three Penn State turnovers to hide the fact that PSU gained 7.1 ypp (1.2 ypp ABOVE their season average).  Iowa isn't exactly a great offense (#81) and they got right at their season average YPP against to Gophers.

But all we're doing is arguing semantics.  I understand why people are frustrated.  I'm not saying I'm not.  But I don't think it's a closed case yet.  There are a lot of things that go into it.  I don't think less than two years is enough to say for certain that one set of reasons is completely trumping the other.

The difference between reasons and excuses are only in the eye of the beholder.
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First the petty parts of the arguement, the tweaks and nuances have involved secondary coverages more man/zone and vice versa.  That right there is a huge transition.  Went through it in college, and that was when defenses weren’t near as complex as today’s are.  

Knocking Minny’s schedule of offensive teams is not saying much when looking at the juggernauts Wisky has faced sans OSU.  So the moral victory about yards against them doesn’t hold the same weight if we’re gonna exclude Minny’s defensive resurgence.  The point was with them was it turned around and was bought in QUICKLY.

But that is here nor there like the first sentence of your last paragraph.

My biggest sticking points along with some others, are turnarounds with changes DONT need four years to see results, NO ONE was bitching about the exact same guys last year that “weren’t P5 players” or “untalented” or however else they’ve been talked about this season, and what has changed since then????

 
PaulCrewe said:
My biggest sticking points along with some others, are turnarounds with changes DONT need four years to see results, NO ONE was bitching about the exact same guys last year that “weren’t P5 players” or “untalented” or however else they’ve been talked about this season, and what has changed since then????
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I don't recall anyone ever saying the things you are "quoting".  So I'm pretty sure you're exaggerating the other side of the argument to try to make it look worse.

I do think people were talking about it before.  But people were more accepting of the defensive problems last year so it wasn't as contentious. I don't think anyone was calling for Chinander to be fired last year.  Now some people think things should be significantly better and are demanding changes.  So the arguments are more pronounced.  But I don't think the substance has changed.  Frost has been saying the same thing all along.

 
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Toe said:
Who? Ozigbo is the only one I can think of, Morgan and the O-line guys were Bo's recruits, not Riley's.
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They played with Riley. I know they were recruited by Bo.  The narrative is that he was weak, created a weak culture, no accountability etc......My point being, I'd love to have had those 4 guys this year.

 
FrantzHardySwag said:
This site is intriguing, thanks for linking. When I calculated the average offense we faced according to these rankings it came out average of 46.7 ranked offense last season and on average 56.7 ranked offense this season. I think we can both post stats to swing the argument in our favor. I honestly don't think this defense looks any better right now than it did at the end of last season. I would take the defense we saw at end of last year OSU, ILL, MSU, Iowa games over the defense we've seen our last 4 games this season. The eye test for me says we had a below average defense last season and we've regressed or at best remained the same. Judging from Frost's comments yesterday I think he is getting sick of seeing opposing teams consistently putting 30+ on our defense as well. Look it doesn't mean we have to fire anyone -- but can't we all admit it has to be better? We HAVE to find a way to hold teams under 30 in conf play or we straight won't hit our goals. A 35-40 point game here and there - fine, but B1G teams averaging 34 points a game on us since this staff showed up, its not gonna cut it.
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I can’t agree more with you. You are spot on with your analysis and that is what I have been saying for weeks. I am hopeful that Frost will self evaluate and evaluate his staff very carefully. His loyalty for this program and the state of Nebraska should outweigh his loyalty to his assistants. If he feels that they deserve another year, so be it but let it be after a thorough consideration and not just because they are his friends.

 
I think the only things to take from this game...

AM had another 300 yard game (Shocker, yet, some still want him to sit)

The offense gained 500 yards

Frost all but called out Chin.

 
PaulCrewe said:
First the petty parts of the arguement, the tweaks and nuances have involved secondary coverages more man/zone and vice versa.  That right there is a huge transition.  Went through it in college, and that was when defenses weren’t near as complex as today’s are.  

Knocking Minny’s schedule of offensive teams is not saying much when looking at the juggernauts Wisky has faced sans OSU.  So the moral victory about yards against them doesn’t hold the same weight if we’re gonna exclude Minny’s defensive resurgence.  The point was with them was it turned around and was bought in QUICKLY.

But that is here nor there like the first sentence of your last paragraph.

My biggest sticking points along with some others, are turnarounds with changes DONT need four years to see results, NO ONE was bitching about the exact same guys last year that “weren’t P5 players” or “untalented” or however else they’ve been talked about this season, and what has changed since then????
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Well said. I am supportive of giving a head coach 3 to 4 years to show progress. I don't think the same holds true for assistants and coordinators, especially if they have never proven themselves and seem to be struggling the same or more in Year 2 from Year 1.  If Chin gets a 3rd season we should see significant strides in on the field performance. 

One big question I have about Frost is whether he would evaluate Chin in the same way if they were not close friends.  He is the CEO of this team!

 
Mavric said:
I don't recall anyone ever saying the things you are "quoting".  So I'm pretty sure you're exaggerating the other side of the argument to try to make it look worse.
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Oh bull crap.  Many were singing the praises of Mo and the Davis twins the last couple of games last year and through the spring and summer

 
PaulCrewe said:
Oh bull crap.  Many were singing the praises of Mo and the Davis twins the last couple of games last year and through the spring and summer
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Mo is one of those players that fans LOVE, I am not sure why.  And if the Davis twins were not twins and adopted...I think the story would not really be all that big of a deal.  They are not all that talented as football players.  

Mo is really not good.  But he says all the right things and Husker fans LOVE that.

 
PaulCrewe said:
My biggest sticking points along with some others, are turnarounds with changes DONT need four years to see results, NO ONE was bitching about the exact same guys last year that “weren’t P5 players” or “untalented” or however else they’ve been talked about this season, and what has changed since then????
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PaulCrewe said:
Oh bull crap.  Many were singing the praises of Mo and the Davis twins the last couple of games last year and through the spring and summer
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Apparently I'm not following you.  Your first post says some people have been calling some of the players "untalented" and that the "weren't P5 players".  I said I haven't seen anyone say that.  Then you talk about people singing their praises.  

I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 
PaulCrewe said:
Teams have dealt with scheme/coaching changes for years and in so many cases transitioned fairly smoothly WITH the existing talent on their rosters.  Maybe the players responded better when not having to hear their coach say they need more talent on the field. 
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After back to back 4-8 seasons this shouldn't be a message the players have a problem with.  If they are so fragile, they shouldn't be playing at Nebraska.  From Jared Tomich:

One of my best memories is when I was a Prop: I would try to come and watch practice. And I didn’t know it, but Coach McBride and his style of motivating? He was telling Terry Connealy and Christian Peter and those guys… he would say, “Hey, you know what? When this kid comes in next year he’s gonna be taking your job.” You know how coach was. So every time I’d come to practice and I’d sit and watch from the bleachers -because that’s all I could do- within the first five minutes I’d hear the footsteps… tap, tap, tap, tap… of their shoes on the steps. I’d look down and they’d be chasing me. Peter and those guys would chase me out of the stadium!

They loved it. They absolutely loved it! They would scare the s#!t out of me and chase me right out of the stadium. And these guys were monsters. You know how they were. (laughs) Yeah, they would chase me out of the stadium every time. If I wanted to watch I had to crawl up and hide to watch practice. And then it wasn’t even worth it. Luckily they were all slow, so I didn’t have to worry about them catching me. (laughing)
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https://www.huskermax.com/anatomy-of-an-era-jared-tomich-part-1/

 
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