The Village of the "Banned"

[Guy Chamberlin]

Personally I’m a bit fed up with all the histrionics over this. Moderators are human. Interpretation of the rules will have some variability. Accept it and get over it. If you have a deep desire to hear from MAGA, travel to a sparsely populated state and pull up a stool at a local coop or coffee shop. The well spoken, intelligent, fact checked Trump supporter doesn’t exist.

I'm clearly in the minority, but my reasoning shouldn't be so hard to fathom. The well-spoken, intelligent, fact-checked Trump supporter may not exist. But they elected the man, changed the course of the country, and may elect him - or someone worse - again. Just because you'd rather not hear their bulls#!t doesn't mean you shouldn't have to. My hopes for conversion are slim, but the mere act of fact-checking a political opponent or making them bring their A-game has value in a discussion also viewed by people who straddle the fence or rarely post. 

This works both ways. If you have a deep desire NOT to hear from MAGA, don't seek out a Politics & Religion forum on a Nebraska Football Fansite. If you've chased them away, don't presume you've won anything. If the Moderators ban or suspend them, don't be surprised if they act like martyrs. If the handful of conservative posters still insist on posting, accept it and get over it. Moderators ARE human, and that's why different people might get different treatment not entirely based on TOS. 

I take a backseat to no one in taking Archy to task, but if the option is less Archy and more of us congratulating each other on posting Marjorie Taylor-Greene memes, I'll go with a little more conflict. It's the P&R forum, for gosh sakes. 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

This is refreshing! It's been awhile since we've had the old suspended/banned discussion.

Maybe the football team will be above .500 this season!!!

Perhaps "The Village of the "Banned" thread in the Woodshed of the Politics & Religion Forum of HuskerBoard isn't the place for you, Z. 

 

[Lorewarn]

I'm clearly in the minority, but my reasoning shouldn't be so hard to fathom. The well-spoken, intelligent, fact-checked Trump supporter may not exist. But they elected the man, changed the course of the country, and may elect him - or someone worse - again. Just because you'd rather not hear their bulls#!t doesn't mean you shouldn't have to. My hopes for conversion are slim, but the mere act of fact-checking a political opponent or making them bring their A-game has value in a discussion also viewed by people who straddle the fence or rarely post. 

This works both ways. If you have a deep desire NOT to hear from MAGA, don't seek out a Politics & Religion forum on a Nebraska Football Fansite. If you've chased them away, don't presume you've won anything. If the Moderators ban or suspend them, don't be surprised if they act like martyrs. If the handful of conservative posters still insist on posting, accept it and get over it. Moderators ARE human, and that's why different people might get different treatment not entirely based on TOS. 

I take a backseat to no one in taking Archy to task, but if the option is less Archy and more of us congratulating each other on posting Marjorie Taylor-Greene memes, I'll go with a little more conflict. It's the P&R forum, for gosh sakes. 

I agree with this except for the idea of chasing people off. "We" aren't chasing off anyone.

The dynamics are what they are. A lot of conservative posters don't venture into P&R at all, or just lurk, or are unable to play by the rules. That's all on them.

A lot of other formerly conservative posters have... stopped being conservative, or at least aren't MAGA conservatives, and for many the P&R forum served as a notable factor in that change. It's kind of a feature of good conversation that MAGA f#&%s can't or won't participate - if you want them more present and engaged, the only feasible way to accommodate that is seemingly for everyone to get dumber.

 

[knapplc]

I'm clearly in the minority, but my reasoning shouldn't be so hard to fathom. The well-spoken, intelligent, fact-checked Trump supporter may not exist. But they elected the man, changed the course of the country, and may elect him - or someone worse - again. Just because you'd rather not hear their bulls#!t doesn't mean you shouldn't have to. My hopes for conversion are slim, but the mere act of fact-checking a political opponent or making them bring their A-game has value in a discussion also viewed by people who straddle the fence or rarely post. 

This works both ways. If you have a deep desire NOT to hear from MAGA, don't seek out a Politics & Religion forum on a Nebraska Football Fansite. If you've chased them away, don't presume you've won anything. If the Moderators ban or suspend them, don't be surprised if they act like martyrs. If the handful of conservative posters still insist on posting, accept it and get over it. Moderators ARE human, and that's why different people might get different treatment not entirely based on TOS. 

I take a backseat to no one in taking Archy to task, but if the option is less Archy and more of us congratulating each other on posting Marjorie Taylor-Greene memes, I'll go with a little more conflict. It's the P&R forum, for gosh sakes.

For someone who's been a member of this forum as long as you have, you don't seem to understand the mechanics of our particular P&R forum.

That seems like a you problem.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I agree with this except for the idea of chasing people off. "We" aren't chasing off anyone.

The dynamics are what they are. A lot of conservative posters don't venture into P&R at all, or just lurk, or are unable to play by the rules. That's all on them.

A lot of other formerly conservative posters have... stopped being conservative, or at least aren't MAGA conservatives, and for many the P&R forum served as a notable factor in that change. It's kind of a feature of good conversation that MAGA f#&%s can't or won't participate - if you want them more present and engaged, the only feasible way to accommodate that is seemingly for everyone to get dumber.

Nobody has to get dumber. To your point, the good conversation may have helped change a few minds. 

I don't know if we chase people off, but the collective has made it pretty clear that anyone willing to defend their vote for Trump, who might vote for him - or someone worse - again, or who even hints they think Joe Biden didn't win a fair election is trolling and a lost cause. That removes almost half the population right there. And I'm genuinely curious what and how they think....whether I like it or not.  I can't think of anything more important than figuring this hyper-partisanship out before it literally kills us.

If it gets too much for you, the Ignore button gives us a choice. I'm pro-choice. 

Also I'm bored when things get a little too cozy in here. You f#&%ers are insufferably reasonable and articulate. 

And in fairness, Archy, Admo, and Devo have occasionally stepped in to inform me that the outrageous things I've been passing around as facts, aren't in fact, facts. 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

For someone who's been a member of this forum as long as you have, you don't seem to understand the mechanics of our particular P&R forum.

That seems like a you problem.

Pretty sure my posts on the subject have made my understanding clear, and simply offered my opinion and preferences, mostly as they pertain to bannings and post-pulling. I'm willing to own whatever I said if you have a specific quibble. 

As I've said a few times over the years, I've been on several political forums, and HuskerBoard is perhaps the best and most intelligent.

Don't know why you'd have a problem with that. 

 

[knapplc]

Pretty sure my posts on the subject have made my understanding clear, and simply offered my opinion and preferences, mostly as they pertain to bannings and post-pulling.

As I've said a few times over the years, I've been on several political forums, and HuskerBoard is perhaps the best and most intelligent.

Don't know why you'd have a problem with that. 

Your error is your assumption that you're talking to Nebraskans. That you continue to labor under this false pretense is the foundation of your misunderstanding.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Your error is your assumption that you're talking to Nebraskans. That you continue to labor under this false pretense is the foundation of your misunderstanding.

Boy when you're wrong, you're wrong. 

At most, I've said  that I had always expected a Nebraska Football fansite to lean conservative, based simply on me knowing the state and the state being conservative. And it was refreshing, if a bit odd, to find the HuskerBoard P&R Forum break so completely against the GOP conventions of not just Nebraska, but any state. 

Because I'm not blind, I literally know what state the posters live in. The fact that people could grow up in Nebraska and move away was not lost on someone who grew up in Nebraska and moved away.  I don't recall a single post where I treated a poster or their opinion as uniquely Nebraskan ---- except on the football threads, where beliefs are slightly more religious than they are in here. 

So there's no error, no assumption, no laboring, no false pretense, and no misunderstanding.

That just leaves your assumption hanging:  the reason HuskerBoard is smart, civil, and open-minded because the people aren't really Nebraskans.

Good luck with that. 

 

[knapplc]

Boy when you're wrong, you're wrong. 

At most, I've said  that I had always expected a Nebraska Football fansite to lean conservative, based simply on me knowing the state and the state being conservative. And it was refreshing, if a bit odd, to find the HuskerBoard P&R Forum break so completely against the GOP conventions of not just Nebraska, but any state. 

Because I'm not blind, I literally know what state the posters live in. The fact that people could grow up in Nebraska and move away was not lost on someone who grew up in Nebraska and moved away.  I don't recall a single post where I treated a poster or their opinion as uniquely Nebraskan ---- except on the football threads, where beliefs are slightly more religious than they are in here. 

So there's no error, no assumption, no laboring, no false pretense, and no misunderstanding.

That just leaves your assumption hanging:  the reason HuskerBoard is smart, civil, and open-minded because the people aren't really Nebraskans.

Good luck with that. 

You've stated multiple times that you expect this board to reflect Nebraska. You're either backtracking now to save face or you were wrong in that expectation. 

 

[JJ Husker]

You've stated multiple times that you expect this board to reflect Nebraska. You're either backtracking now to save face or you were wrong in that expectation. 

I mean even I would expect a Nebraska fan board to have a heavier conservative tilt to it, for no other reason than many/most Husker fans either grew up in or spent some time in Nebraska, a pretty conservative R leaning state. I don’t think it’s an odd expectation. What is a little odd is that I’m pretty sure there are quite a few more conservatives on the board than is evidenced in P&R but most of them lately seem to avoid P&R. It could be that the majority just want to discuss or read about football and sports. Or maybe it’s a quick realization that if you go into P&R unprepared, armed only with falsehoods and Q level conspiracies that you will get eaten alive by people that aren’t about to buy the load of horses#!t you came with. IMO that’s not a bad thing.

I understand Guy’s concerns about the imbalance but for the life of me I can’t imagine a sane person honestly and intelligently trying to defend Trump or MAGA. It’s a fools errand and losing cause. So it really is not all that surprising that they stay out of the discussion and simply continue to vote for Rs. I know they exist and already understand them as well as is possible.  Guy thinks there is more insight to be garnered, I’m pretty convinced there isn’t.

 

[Lorewarn]

I don't know if we chase people off, but the collective has made it pretty clear that anyone willing to defend their vote for Trump, who might vote for him - or someone worse - again, or who even hints they think Joe Biden didn't win a fair election is trolling and a lost cause. That removes almost half the population right there. And I'm genuinely curious what and how they think....whether I like it or not.  I can't think of anything more important than figuring this hyper-partisanship out before it literally kills us.

I don't personally think MAGA folk are definitively trolling, although there's a strong correlation. Lost cause? That I probably agree with for most, sadly, but I'm still glad to engage and also curious to understand. At the end of the day, to understand where we're at is to, imo, understand that we're mostly hopelessly overpowered by the machines we've created. Social media algorithms are ruthlessly efficient in hijacking and stimulating our most primitive instincts, and there's very little we can do against such a foe. 

I'd love to believe in an Aaron Sorkin-esque "one good speech can change the world and change minds" paradigm, and a sentimental part of me even does, but it's a dangerously naive idea. Even the most utopian space of rational thinking and free-flowing conversation you could possibly imagine fails to compete on merit in the brains of humans competing against outrage and engagement farming.

So while I think you and I agree on most things related to this, you seem to think there's a viable solution to these problems at the person by person level, and I don't buy it. We're slaves competing against an empire. We're a 3rd string Idaho State walk-on quarterback competing against the entire Alabama athletic department :lol:

Also I'm bored when things get a little too cozy in here. You f#&%ers are insufferably reasonable and articulate. 

And in fairness, Archy, Admo, and Devo have occasionally stepped in to inform me that the outrageous things I've been passing around as facts, aren't in fact, facts. 

All well said.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

You've stated multiple times that you expect this board to reflect Nebraska. You're either backtracking now to save face or you were wrong in that expectation. 

I stated mere hours ago that I expected HuskerBoard to reflect Nebraska's political leanings in its Politics & Religion Forum, followed immediately by mentioning my pleasant surprise that it didn't. Since the bluest state in America has exponentially more MAGA defenders than this forum, it remains a bit of an anomaly, right? 

My face is fine. 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I'd love to believe in an Aaron Sorkin-esque "one good speech can change the world and change minds" paradigm, and a sentimental part of me even does, but it's a dangerously naive idea. Even the most utopian space of rational thinking and free-flowing conversation you could possibly imagine fails to compete on merit in the brains of humans competing against outrage and engagement farming.

So while I think you and I agree on most things related to this, you seem to think there's a viable solution to these problems at the person by person level, and I don't buy it. We're slaves competing against an empire. We're a 3rd string Idaho State walk-on quarterback competing against the entire Alabama athletic department :lol:

Also well said. 

Especially about the dangerous Aaron Sorkin fantasy. That's why I like this place.

I do maintain a tiny sliver of hope that perhaps you don't. We've had some folks in this very forum say the smart conversation has made them readjust their beliefs. I think the constant vetting of the memes and talking points being passed around is important. I don't expect to budge righteous loyalists and lib-baiters, but simple math says if 3% of voters respond to reason and conscience, it can swing the fate of the country. 

Clearly I have an issue with banning posters and pulling posts, and I've always acknowledge that's on me.  

 

[Enhance]

I don't know if we chase people off, but the collective has made it pretty clear that anyone willing to defend their vote for Trump, who might vote for him - or someone worse - again, or who even hints they think Joe Biden didn't win a fair election is trolling and a lost cause. That removes almost half the population right there. And I'm genuinely curious what and how they think....whether I like it or not.  I can't think of anything more important than figuring this hyper-partisanship out before it literally kills us.

The only issue I have with your perspective Guy is that you're obfuscating and (without any evidence) correlating someone's political affiliation and opinions with their moderation history.

Never mind that multiple other people have admitted to being warned/suspended for things they did in P&R. Nevermind that Archy and several other people have been explicitly talked to, verbally warned, and formally warned to knock certain behaviors off in that forum. Nevermind that Archy is one of a handful of individuals regularly finding themselves in hot water in that forum. You appear to believe that 1) because he got a vacation and 2) because you have a general, fundamental disagreement with board moderation in general, that Archy is a victim. The victim thing is your prerogative. The moderation thing is something I think you need to manage or figure out how to move beyond on your own.

I couldn't even begin to tell you how many complaints and reports we've received since 2015-2016 in that forum. Dozens and dozens at least. Very, very few of those turn into anything actionable. The vast majority of them are either a) not big issues or b) people accusing someone else of doing the same thing they're doing. And as someone who actually has the receipts and background knowledge, I think we've been pretty damn fair. In fact we get regularly accused of not being heavy-handed enough. So, no matter what we do, someone is going to be pissed about it. I can live with that.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Message received.

I will take mild umbrage at the word "obfuscation". This thread was revived when another poster asked about Archy's absence. When asked directly if Archy had been banned, Enhance replied that "no one has been permanently banned recently."  The honest, non-obfuscating answer, of course, is that yes, we gave him a month suspension. That's why he's not posting. Then when the two actionable posts were shown, they were pretty underwhelming flame-wise. Felt like the obfuscation was on the other hand, and that's why I responded the way I did.

I don't know if there's a lot I need to figure out or move beyond. I'm just one poster with an opinion. One of those opinions is how much I like this P&R Board. I just like it better when its semi-civil and self-regulating; when posters don't run to the moderators to settle their hash, and when moderators don't ban or suspend posters unless it's pretty egregious: i.e. threats and privacy issues. This is based partially on revisiting old threads and thinking HuskerBoard was livelier with some of the more spirited posters who are now banned. I'm keenly aware there are various reasons for their banning, and will take the collective's word that it's not as political as I might think. 

People I admire disagree, and enjoy this place better without the more persistent board irritants, which is pretty easy to understand. I'm still likely to hold my minority opinion on this for reasons I've outlined ad nauseum, and that's okay, too.

It's just sad that we wasted a Shed Thread with so much polite discourse.