Denying science in the classroom

[NM11046]

And this is one of the many reasons I fell out of religion. Christians telling each other they are wrong and not even able to agree on their own teachings. Everyone needs to get on the same page before you can convince other people to believe in what it is you believe.

Heh. I fell out of belief because of my extensive research into religion. The more I learned the more I realized it wasn't possible for it to be true. The eggshell cracks and suddenly it's gone. Can't unscramble the egg.

I'm not a big Bill Mahr fan, but I assume you've seen Religulous?

I can't stand Bill Maher, so no.

Give it a try - I promise it's worthwhile. I can't stomach watching his programs (or even when he's interviewed on talk shows) but i really took some things away from this documentary. And from what you've said about your path of questioning Knapp, I think we have similar processing methods on this big topic.

 

[knapplc]

If you don't mind me asking, why don't you like Maher?

He comes across to me as snide, nasty, mean. Any time I've ever tried to listen to him, no matter if it's comedy or politics or whatever, he's just off-putting to me. Can't stand the sight or sound of him.

 

[NM11046]

If you don't mind me asking, why don't you like Maher?

Not sure if you're asking me but ....

Although I align to many of his political beliefs, I find his cockiness and delivery of his ideas to be hard to handle. He acts like Bill O'Reilly, in that anyone who has other views is belittled and he attempts to make them out to be silly for bringing things up. He's condescending and a bully.

 

[Fru]

I like that Bill makes a concerted effort to bring conservatives on his show. He certainly challenges them, however he does give them an ample opportunity to defend their platform and stances.

I also appreciate that he routinely calls out liberals. His closing remarks on Episode 412 are spot on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1r9_tgRgRk

 

[Landlord]

Maher is just a miserable snide jacka$$. He's the physical embodiment of fedora-wearing internet atheists in that he gets the most satisfaction out of attacking others' perspectives than he does holding his own, and most of his arguments are on the level of an average philosophy 101 student's contributions.

 

[Fru]

Maher is just a miserable snide jacka$$. He's the physical embodiment of fedora-wearing internet atheists in that he gets the most satisfaction out of attacking others' perspectives than he does holding his own, and most of his arguments are on the level of an average philosophy 101 student's contributions.

Shots fired.

 

[Mierin]

I don't really care what some fallible human priest or pastor tells me about Bible interpretation.

The Bible says if a woman dresses like a man it's an abomination. And God was cool with Elisha calling on a couple bears to kill 42 kids because. they made fun of his bald head.

Intepreting all of it literally isn't logical.

 

[NM11046]

Maher is just a miserable snide jacka$$. He's the physical embodiment of fedora-wearing internet atheists in that he gets the most satisfaction out of attacking others' perspectives than he does holding his own, and most of his arguments are on the level of an average philosophy 101 student's contributions.

Shots fired.

Let's all watch tonight! (I think Milo Iannopoulos is supposed to be on - will be a real test)

 

[Landlord]

I don't really care what some fallible human priest or pastor tells me about Bible interpretation.

The Bible says if a woman dresses like a man it's an abomination. And God was cool with Elisha calling on a couple bears to kill 42 kids because. they made fun of his bald head.

Intepreting all of it literally isn't logical.

Literal interpretation is just lazy. It's the biggest copout way of reading the Bible possible. If we are to take the Bible literally, does that mean that God has an anthromorphic mouth with which he uttered Hebrew words to create the universe? It says He spoke.

 

[Danny Bateman]

I don't really care what some fallible human priest or pastor tells me about Bible interpretation.

The Bible says if a woman dresses like a man it's an abomination. And God was cool with Elisha calling on a couple bears to kill 42 kids because. they made fun of his bald head.

Intepreting all of it literally isn't logical.

Literal interpretation is just lazy. It's the biggest copout way of reading the Bible possible. If we are to take the Bible literally, does that mean that God has an anthromorphic mouth with which he uttered Hebrew words to create the universe? It says He spoke.

I also don't want to go to Hell for trimming my sideburns the other day...

 

[Danny Bateman]

And this is one of the many reasons I fell out of religion. Christians telling each other they are wrong and not even able to agree on their own teachings. Everyone needs to get on the same page before you can convince other people to believe in what it is you believe.

Heh. I fell out of belief because of my extensive research into religion. The more I learned the more I realized it wasn't possible for it to be true. The eggshell cracks and suddenly it's gone. Can't unscramble the egg.

Someday soon, maybe.

 

[knapplc]

I don't really care what some fallible human priest or pastor tells me about Bible interpretation.

The Bible says if a woman dresses like a man it's an abomination. And God was cool with Elisha calling on a couple bears to kill 42 kids because. they made fun of his bald head.

Intepreting all of it literally isn't logical.

Literal interpretation is just lazy. It's the biggest copout way of reading the Bible possible. If we are to take the Bible literally, does that mean that God has an anthromorphic mouth with which he uttered Hebrew words to create the universe? It says He spoke.

If we take the Bible literally, does that mean that God became human via a virgin birth, then died on the cross atoning for all the sins of all humans for all time?

You really have to be careful with this interpretation talk. If you can interpret this verse, why can't you interpret that verse?

 

[JJ Husker]

I don't really care what some fallible human priest or pastor tells me about Bible interpretation.

The Bible says if a woman dresses like a man it's an abomination. And God was cool with Elisha calling on a couple bears to kill 42 kids because. they made fun of his bald head.

Intepreting all of it literally isn't logical.

Literal interpretation is just lazy. It's the biggest copout way of reading the Bible possible. If we are to take the Bible literally, does that mean that God has an anthromorphic mouth with which he uttered Hebrew words to create the universe? It says He spoke.

If we take the Bible literally, does that mean that God became human via a virgin birth, then died on the cross atoning for all the sins of all humans for all time?

You really have to be careful with this interpretation talk. If you can interpret this verse, why can't you interpret that verse?

So, you're claiming that it all has to be taken literally or none of it can be true? And that begs the question, which books actually constitute the Bible. Mere men have determined which books belong and which don't and many Christian religions differ from one another in this regard.

Why can't God have become human via a virgin birth but not have created the world in 6 literal days? Are you telling me I can't believe the former without believing the latter, because I don 't believe it happened in 6 days.

And please don't fall back on what this or that specific religion teaches as dogma. Religions are run by men and men make mistakes. In my mind that means we are all on our own to interpret the Bible. I don't believe any one religion known to man has it pegged exactly right and I doubt that any one person has it all figured out. I'm quite sure nobody commenting in this thread does, including myself.

One thing I'm sure we can agree on is that people who interpret it literally are bound to be wrong about much of it. I just don't see how a person arrives at the all or none point you constantly talk about. With that approach, it's no wonder a person can't believe any of it.

 

[Landlord]

You really have to be careful with this interpretation talk. If you can interpret this verse, why can't you interpret that verse?

You can, if you want to. We all have to do the best we can, and acknowledge that we'll get more wrong than right. If we assume that God/heaven are real, when we die and show up at the pearly gates or whatever, God's going to have a chuckle at how little we were on the right track with.

Even if the exclusivity claims of Jesus are real, the best we will ever be able to talk about God is through metaphor. In the garden, God walked with Adam and Eve. Then, God was a flaming bush that spouted existential poetry to Moses. Then, God was a pillar of fire and light. Then God lived inside the arc, and later the tabernacle. Somewhere along the way, God became distant and impersonal. Then, God came with a face in the man Jesus who died. Then, God came in the form of the Spirit who lives inside of us. Even within the orthodoxy of the Christian tradition there are a multitude of ideas and metaphors about what/who/where exactly God is. None of them are a full understanding - how could they be?

* Disclaimer, I do still believe that Jesus was God the Son, or the Christ, incarnate, born of a virgin, resurrected. But even Jesus has enough ambiguity to allow people room to wrestle and search and follow.

 

[NM11046]

Therein lies my question LOMS ... do you "believe" that ... or do you "know" that?

I think the former is true for most, and I respect that. Where I struggle is that I can respect your beliefs, but "knowing" to me has to be fact based. And as has been hashed out above, the bible is pretty loose on how it can be interpreted. It's certainly not fact. I look at it more as a "guide".

All semantics I know, but it hangs me up. I appreciate that many feel fulfilled with religion, and consider it a core part of their being. I personally however struggle with anyone telling me that the bible is fact.