Weird Time for Christians

BlitzFirst said:
Oh I see...because I got called out on generalizing and clarified/changed my argument...or because I committed a fallacy, it means I'm completely wrong eh?

Oddly enough, that again is a fallacy again..it's called Argument from fallacy. 

My official stance is that politics and religion would be better completely separate.  Churches host voting registration drives, they open their doors as voting sites on elections, they host patriotic events, and encourage patriotism. 

I gave examples of Evangelicals and Catholics because they make up almost 65% of Christians in the US and they both align on prolife and against gay marriage; not because I think they need to be dragged through the mud or have a problem with them...both of those issues are hot-button political issues.  Churches encourage their members to vote according to the consciences and religion is specifically a conscience trainer and former.

I think that distancing religions from military, state and federal government, and political issues would be something that should be done.  There is no place for one inside the other.  Whether or not you believe an invisible entity governs all life should not be a prerequisite for becoming president...but currently it is and I find that discouraging on the whole.
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Most of the statements you’ve made have been wrong.

But I think most people discussing with you want there to be separation between church and state.

 
Wow, this thread took a life after the topic of the last sermon from our pastor.   I had lunch with him yesterday, and we briefly talked about his sermon.   His takeaway and why he talked about this, (and has plans for a sermon on marijuana and just recently had one on homosexuality) and why he is talking about these issues.   Much to Blitz's dismay, it's not to sway me to vote one way or another, it's to inform the congregation.  He said these are hot-button divisive topics and he wanted to cite the bible and tell us what the bible says about these things and use that information to guide us to make our own decision on what we think and use the Church as a place to gather information.   In the public we hear the two parties bicker back and forth, giving us a lot of information and misinformation, his job as a pastor, is to give us the Church's viewpoint and help guide us to our answer.   The immigration sermon had zero discussion about how we should vote or who we should vote for, it was telling us what the bible says about foreigners and how they should be treated and if we are so called, which organizations locally we can go and volunteer.

 
sho said:
He said these are hot-button divisive topics and he wanted to cite the bible and tell us what the bible says about these things and use that information to guide us to make our own decision on what we think and use the Church as a place to gather information.   In the public we hear the two parties bicker back and forth, giving us a lot of information and misinformation, his job as a pastor, is to give us the Church's viewpoint and help guide us to our answer.
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When looking for a moral stance on issues, I try to find canonical wisdom from Jesus, and not the OT.

On homosexuality and the treatment of immigrants, I read Matthew 22:36-40.

 
Note: I hope the regular denizens of the Politics and Religion board do not mind me posting here.

HuskerBoard rules had been no posting here until you reach 250 posts, which I am far short of.

But thanks to David Max's new software upgrade, that limitation did not get included.

Hopefully I will be slightly less annoying than the plethora of advertisements that are sure to follow.

 
Apsu said:
Note: I hope the regular denizens of the Politics and Religion board do not mind me posting here.

HuskerBoard rules had been no posting here until you reach 250 posts, which I am far short of.

But thanks to David Max's new software upgrade, that limitation did not get included.

Hopefully I will be slightly less annoying than the plethora of advertisements that are sure to follow.
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Just don't be a jagweed and you'll be fine

 
Apsu said:
Note: I hope the regular denizens of the Politics and Religion board do not mind me posting here.

HuskerBoard rules had been no posting here until you reach 250 posts, which I am far short of.

But thanks to David Max's new software upgrade, that limitation did not get included.

Hopefully I will be slightly less annoying than the plethora of advertisements that are sure to follow.
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Welcome - educated debate and dialogue regardless of your views is welcome, it's just the clowns that come to troll that made the min post necessary.  

 
BlitzFirst said:
Honest question.

Why do you care what the church's viewpoint is?
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For me, that's more than a message board post answer.   Short answer, I seek people/organizations with wisdom to give me information, so I can learn and form my own opinions.   I hear what (s)he says, look at the source they are using, look to see what they are trying to accomplish, digest it, and come up with my own thoughts and opinions on a topic.  I then start aligning myself with people/organizations that share a majority of same things I do.  Once I have built the trust, I tend to care about and value their opinion over others that I did not find to be as useful to me. 

I have that relationship with this pastor, the way he explains things, the way he teaches about the bible, coupled with the first hand experiences I have had that lend me to trust his word and explanation.   Do I disagree with him on somethings?  Yes.  But I tend to believe more than not and have had many blessings.   That said, his voice is not the only voice I listen to and use for information.  He is just another source, of what I consider trusted, providers that I can use to form my opinion.   When we disagree, he doesn't say I'm wrong, doesn't try to brow beat me into believing lock, stock and barrel the same things he does.

Lastly, this church, this pastor is all about what can I do to be better than I was yesterday, both morally and spiritually.   How can I serve those that are in need?  How can I help those that don't have the same blessings and opportunities I have had?  What can I do to make the lives of those around me more enriched?   That was the topic of immigration.   They are here, for whatever personal reason of their choice, now what can I do to help make their life better for as long as I have interaction with them?   The bible teaches, love him as your neighbor, how can I show that love that fits in my belief of the current immigration policy?  And what more can I do?  There was never talk about politics, there was never talk of this group/person believes this way help get him or her in or out.  It was how can I enrich the life of a fellow human while I can?

 
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Caring about the church's or pastor's position is the same as going to see a doctor when you're sick. It's an appeal to authority and expertise. Hell that's generally what the formation of religions are in general.

 
BlitzFirst said:
Cool thanks.  Appreciate your candor.
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Thanks, and for me it's not believing every pastor.   I'm not fan of Joel Osteen or Falwell or for that matter any of the mega-church pastors, I feel those are greed/snake oil salesman and move right on past what they have to say.  It's the ones that I have a personal relationship with that I have built up trust with that person.

 
BlitzFirst said:
It's just perspective.  Some people don't really need to learn anything from a church.  So the difference is perspective in the value of the teaching...it's just not valuable for some.
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And...that's what I'm saying.  Those people aren't going to go to a church to listen.  That's fine.

 
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