TGHusker
New member
Faith by its very essence has elements of doubts. Not sure anyone can honestly say they are 100% sure - that would be the definition of being 'cocksure'.
Knapp, you know I appreciate your journey. I appreciate your honesty.
Weird Time for Christians
- Thread starter Guy Chamberlin
- Start date
teachercd
Active member
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Lorewarn
New member
Depends on what you're believing and why.
For many, the social and communal cost of rejecting your only faith context can be way too costly and so the easier thing is to keep rationalizing and updating your worldview to never be threatened. Evangelicalism, for example, has a nifty little trick where it convinces you that the voice of your intuition is the voice of the 'flesh' and should be avoided in favor of the voice of the church claiming to be the voice of god.
TGHusker
New member
Somewhat related to the above, I guess there was an essay contest on Life after death. I stumbled upon this while listening to a podcasts on a similar subject. This wasn't a light weight contest - the contestants had to write basically a doctorate level book to make their case. They don't promote one faith or another - just the concept of life after death. I haven't read the essays yet but they look pretty involved. I thought this might be interesting to some of you.
https://www.bigelowinstitute.org/
The BICS 2021 Essay Contest
Judging the Evidence for Life After Death
Essay Question Each essay must address the following question: What is the best available evidence for the Survival of Human Consciousness after Permanent Bodily Death?
The Seven Essay Contest Judges
Between July and December 2020, BICS recruited a panel of judges with broad backgrounds in diverse subjects that collectively constitute the field of survival of consciousness after death, including medical sciences, statistics, humanities, SOHC research, and physics. The judges were (in alphabetical order):
Dianne Arcangel, M.S.; Christopher Green, Ph.D., M.D.; Leslie Kean; Jeffrey Kripal, Ph.D.; Hal Puthoff, Ph.D.; Jessica Utts, Ph.D.; Brian Weiss, M.D
The winners were chosen based on the power of the arguments presented and on how persuasively the essays made the case for survival of human consciousness beyond a reasonable doubt as though you were in a courtroom. While the judges were reading and re-reading the 204 submitted essays, they were conscious of the great responsibility of choosing the top three. The judges chose these principal winners with exquisite care.
Top 3 essays here:
https://www.bigelowinstitute.org/index.php/bics-afterlife-proof/bics-essay-contest-winners-2/
https://www.bigelowinstitute.org/
The BICS 2021 Essay Contest
Judging the Evidence for Life After Death
Essay Question Each essay must address the following question: What is the best available evidence for the Survival of Human Consciousness after Permanent Bodily Death?
The Seven Essay Contest Judges
Between July and December 2020, BICS recruited a panel of judges with broad backgrounds in diverse subjects that collectively constitute the field of survival of consciousness after death, including medical sciences, statistics, humanities, SOHC research, and physics. The judges were (in alphabetical order):
Dianne Arcangel, M.S.; Christopher Green, Ph.D., M.D.; Leslie Kean; Jeffrey Kripal, Ph.D.; Hal Puthoff, Ph.D.; Jessica Utts, Ph.D.; Brian Weiss, M.D
The winners were chosen based on the power of the arguments presented and on how persuasively the essays made the case for survival of human consciousness beyond a reasonable doubt as though you were in a courtroom. While the judges were reading and re-reading the 204 submitted essays, they were conscious of the great responsibility of choosing the top three. The judges chose these principal winners with exquisite care.
Top 3 essays here:
https://www.bigelowinstitute.org/index.php/bics-afterlife-proof/bics-essay-contest-winners-2/
RedDenver
New member
So a contest designed to write essays about life after death produced results that the judges thought were convincing? NO WAY!
In other news, flat earthers held a contest and were convinced "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the Earth is flat.
funhusker
Active member
University of Virginia has a department that studies things like this. They have actually studied some pretty intriguing things
https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/
TGHusker
New member
Yep, there are some pretty serious studies on related near death experiences. Although, we have seen some 'sensationalized' claims and even movies based on books written by people who have experienced NDE, the discussion goes on in various venues as to what NDE's are and mean.
I'm going to get on my :boxosoap here and just vent some thoughts. I am sure my post will be met with a few of these :lol: but that is ok. I am not ashamed of the Gospel - The Good News of God's love for all of mankind - including those who give me a :lol: .
There is too much going on in the 'spiritual' world - things people experience worldwide just to dismiss it out of hand. No one has perfect knowledge or full knowledge and this spiritual realm could exist in a dimension beyond us and it doesn't fit into a nice scientific test tube. To be religious doesn't make you anti-science. To be scientific doesn't make one anti-religion. Both seek truth is different ways.
A thought here: We have read of hypothesis from scientists who believe there are multi-universes. That our known and seen universe is just one of perhaps 1000s or more universes. This isn't something that can be easily proved or can be possibly be proved at all - since it is outside of our whole realm of existence and observation. Some suggest that unseen universes can be observed by their affects on our universe. But lets say it is true, is it not possible that in the same way that God exists in a realm not seen, not observable or researchable by normal human means? Could God not be in a universe not seen by us? Yet, could not this "God Universe" have an affect on us if this universe is of a spiritual nature? Jesus said over and over again that his Kingdom was not of this world. It was outside the sphere of normal human existence. We could only see the kingdom by being 'born again' - our spirit man reconnected to our Creator(if we are a triune being of a physical body with a living soul which gives us the personality, temperament, etc that defines the true person + a spirit - that connection to the God who created us - which needs to be reborn. "God has placed eternity into our hearts" Eccl 3:11) If this God is who the Bible says he is in his essence - love (God is Love 1John 4:8) then perhaps all of the judgmental, angry god stuff can be thrown out. Jesus said the 2 commandments that really matter are: Love God (which can transform us to live out the second command) love others as self. Then maybe this God, in this unseen universe/kingdom has a long range plan to redeem & reconcile every single person to himself even if it happens in the 'ages to come' after we die.
Do I believe in a retributive god - who banishes people to hell who were born into the wrong family, country, time frame, religion? - NO WAY. If God is love and His kingdom (universe) is love - than the other is a false god. I used to believe in that god because that is the theology of so much of American evangelicalism. But now I believe in a God who redeems and reconciles all people to Himself through Jesus Christ - even if that occurs after death. This is the God who transformed my life. Look up Christian Universalism. It was the prevailing belief of the early church up to the rise of the Roman church. (4 out of 6 theology centers in the early church taught it, one taught that unbelievers just disappear at death and another taught hell fire to unbelievers at death). Then Rome came to dominate govt and religion and used both to control people via fear.
I'll leave you with this thought that I always find funny when I hear it. It is a quote from J Vernon McGee - a bible teacher from the 1940-1950s who can still be heard on some radio stations. This quote is about universes as well
"This is God's universe and God does things His way. Now you might have a better way, but...... you don't have a universe."
:rant
knapplc
Active member
It's a long thread. Here's the whole thing, unwrapped:
As a Christian, I want to share a lament with you.
What we Christians get outraged about and what we don’t says a lot about our Christian reputation in the world.
This last week was a prime example.
Social media exploded with Christian outrage over what was thought to be a mockery of the Lord’s Supper during the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games.
The last few days, I have read some of the most hostile, arrogant, and demonizing words this week from people who claim to follow Jesus towards people they don’t even know.
So many didn’t even take the time to try to understand the cultural context of the people we were watching. Rather, so many of us Christians just jumped to conclusions and made it all about us and our religion. It truly broke my heart.
The reality is, the radical message of the gospel is that every single human being we saw in the opening ceremony would have been invited by Jesus to sit at his table just like we would be. Yet so much of the outrage from Christians expressed otherwise.
On top of this, we have yet to see this kind of viral Christian outrage on social media over kids going to school hungry, racial injustice, systemic poverty in our nation, or legislation that gives preference to our own religious group over everyone else.
Even though Jesus himself says, “whatever you do for the least among you, you do for me.”
It seems as though we prioritize our own offense towards others rather than actually loving others as Jesus called us to do.
I’m so weary of this public reputation. Not just because of how it paints a picture of how we Christians are so easily offended, but more importantly how weak it makes the message of Jesus we claim to believe in look to the world.
I just don’t think we Christians realize how fragile we make ourselves look when we act as if a single act of artistic expression poses an existential threat to our faith, as if God is offended by all the exact same things we are.
I just don’t think we Christians realize how we make it sound like Christianity or even the Bible itself cannot stand on the truth if its own merits by how frantic and outraged we become at the mere suggestion of opposing beliefs or criticism.
I just don’t think we Christians realize how fragile we make ourselves look when we act like we need an authoritarian president and government to ensure and enforce our own interests over everyone else as if Jesus’ way of power isn’t enough for us.
I just don’t think we Christians realize how fragile we make ourselves look when we allow fear, suspicion, and outrage to dictate our public behavior rather than faith, hope, and love.
If we truly believe our Christian faith is built on the strong foundation of the truth of Jesus, why are we not acting like it?
The reality is, as a pastor, this is one of the biggest reasons I hear from people who simply find it hard to remain in the church.
We Christians claim to have such a strong foundation in God, yet we consistently act so fearful and combative towards the world. Acting as if Jesus called us to conquer the world rather than love it as he did.
Our public behavior simply doesn’t match up with what we claim to believe.
For this, I lament and deeply hope we confront this within ourselves. For it only leads to sorrow and harm while claiming to take a stand for God.
Lord, have mercy. Christ, have mercy.
As a Christian, I want to share a lament with you.
What we Christians get outraged about and what we don’t says a lot about our Christian reputation in the world.
This last week was a prime example.
Social media exploded with Christian outrage over what was thought to be a mockery of the Lord’s Supper during the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games.
The last few days, I have read some of the most hostile, arrogant, and demonizing words this week from people who claim to follow Jesus towards people they don’t even know.
So many didn’t even take the time to try to understand the cultural context of the people we were watching. Rather, so many of us Christians just jumped to conclusions and made it all about us and our religion. It truly broke my heart.
The reality is, the radical message of the gospel is that every single human being we saw in the opening ceremony would have been invited by Jesus to sit at his table just like we would be. Yet so much of the outrage from Christians expressed otherwise.
On top of this, we have yet to see this kind of viral Christian outrage on social media over kids going to school hungry, racial injustice, systemic poverty in our nation, or legislation that gives preference to our own religious group over everyone else.
Even though Jesus himself says, “whatever you do for the least among you, you do for me.”
It seems as though we prioritize our own offense towards others rather than actually loving others as Jesus called us to do.
I’m so weary of this public reputation. Not just because of how it paints a picture of how we Christians are so easily offended, but more importantly how weak it makes the message of Jesus we claim to believe in look to the world.
I just don’t think we Christians realize how fragile we make ourselves look when we act as if a single act of artistic expression poses an existential threat to our faith, as if God is offended by all the exact same things we are.
I just don’t think we Christians realize how we make it sound like Christianity or even the Bible itself cannot stand on the truth if its own merits by how frantic and outraged we become at the mere suggestion of opposing beliefs or criticism.
I just don’t think we Christians realize how fragile we make ourselves look when we act like we need an authoritarian president and government to ensure and enforce our own interests over everyone else as if Jesus’ way of power isn’t enough for us.
I just don’t think we Christians realize how fragile we make ourselves look when we allow fear, suspicion, and outrage to dictate our public behavior rather than faith, hope, and love.
If we truly believe our Christian faith is built on the strong foundation of the truth of Jesus, why are we not acting like it?
The reality is, as a pastor, this is one of the biggest reasons I hear from people who simply find it hard to remain in the church.
We Christians claim to have such a strong foundation in God, yet we consistently act so fearful and combative towards the world. Acting as if Jesus called us to conquer the world rather than love it as he did.
Our public behavior simply doesn’t match up with what we claim to believe.
For this, I lament and deeply hope we confront this within ourselves. For it only leads to sorrow and harm while claiming to take a stand for God.
Lord, have mercy. Christ, have mercy.
BigRedBuster
Active member
TGHusker
New member
And yet, this isn't all of American Christianity but the vocal portion. It primarily stretches across the evangelical & fundamentalist and Catholic confessions but not all of them either. There are many moderates and liberal Christians in those camps and in America in general. These continue to do their quiet good works of compassion and affect the nation positively. However, it is the vocal, weak in true faith, and those true wolves in sheep clothing who end up taking the light away from the gospel and those who deserve the attention but don't demand it while they continue doing good.
BigRedBuster
Active member
Agree. But, the vocal side is WAY too loud for others to recognize the other Christians.
TGHusker
New member
Yep. And hopefully nothing like a sound defeat at the polls to shut down their voice (after of course their planned 2nd insurrection
)
BigRedBuster
Active member
Perfect headline.
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